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Sound Upgrade

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speedking said:
Or Scotchlock have served me well:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotch-Connectors-Splice-Terminals-Electrical/dp/B007ZDM4R2
more in line than right angle.
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Those are actually what I personally try to avoid.
They tend to cut the original wiring and further down the line especially when there are vibrations they start giving bad connections or worse end up with an cut wire lose.
Probably it depends the quality also but I wouldn't use them unless there was no other options and then I would have find a way to keep them in place like a good wrap with electrical tape and then a zip tie on top to hold them all together.
 
I agree totally with nicosp. Strip and solder and then insulate with fabric insulation tape.
 
nicosp said:
Those are actually what I personally try to avoid.
They tend to cut the original wiring and further down the line especially when there are vibrations they start giving bad connections or worse end up with an cut wire lose.
Probably it depends the quality also but I wouldn't use them unless there was no other options and then I would have find a way to keep them in place like a good wrap with electrical tape and then a zip tie on top to hold them all together.
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+1. My experience with my first car was totally awful. Used by the previous owner to attach an aftermarket alarm linked to the central lock, them gave continuous problems with door opening or alarm disabling (if no both at same time). When I replaced them for soldered joints I found rusty copper and burnt wires due to false contacts (without mention to repair the wires in a 25/30 lines harness under dash).

jeroenvde said:
I think it's time for me to spend some money regarding this topic.
Looking at the Match M 5DSP MK2. Any experience here?
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I think is not bad, but expensive, more if you add wired/bluetooth/wifi remote controller, specific harness to avoid this problems, information display, etc.
 
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Hello everyone,
I read this whole thread but I find it a little bit chaotic at times. It seems that nobody bought the OEM upgrade pack so we don't have clear answer whether it's worth it or not. Every user used completely different speakers and amplifier so there is not much info in it too.

Because my plan of upgrading to i30N facelifted is failing I decided to upgrade audio in my current car. From experience on my bmw e36 (which is like the worst car for car audio) I know that 130mm speakers are not enough and subwoofer is a must. Although I've heard that good 165mm speakers with good sound deadening of doors will play surprisingly good enough. Even so that sub won't be necessary.

Either way I'm planning to buy active Gladen sub rs 08 RB that will fit into spare tire space with Gladen 165mm SQX line front speakers. First one is the only product like that on the market (that I;ve found) and the latter I chose solely on being the same brand as sub.

Which amplifier should choose for such setup? 2 way or 4 way (2x channel plus one bridged for sub, which is already an active one)? Is there like any specific spec that I should look for apart from RMS power per channel?
 
loafer-N77 said:
I think a few German owners have the OEM upgrade package fitted?
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Thank you. Looks like the consensus is that pioneer set is always an upgrade, but no one ever compared directly to other sets so all we know is that it's better than shit OEM set and its not that expensive.

On the other hand, I noticed on several occasions that some ppl are happy with just adding pioneer D-class amplifier or similiar (that the one used in official pioneer set) and sound insulation the doors. This would actually fit with some opinions from car audio forums, that properly insulated doors with good quality 165mm speakers with appropriate amplifier will give great result, even making subwoofer a nice to have thing rather then a must have one
 
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PaZeRa said:
On the other hand, I noticed on several occasions that some ppl are happy with just adding pioneer D-class amplifier or similiar (that the one used in official pioneer set) and sound insulation the doors.
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I think the opinion here as well is that if you only do one thing, then do the amp first as it makes a big change and then you can change other things later on if you still aren't happy.
 
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I have also the Deluxe pack. The sound is amazing than, i think it's enough for a better sound experience. I also changed the tweeters. But, the Deluxe option + the subwoofer is a piece of... crap.. :D So if you want a normal bass exeperience (not the i'm the coolest gangsta, race boy , and crush all the plastic clips at the interior)) you need to buy a normal woofer for the best sound quality. With the Deluxe + Pioneer woofer can't handle the bass above 80Hz, because of the size.
 
PaZeRa said:
Thank you. Looks like the consensus is that pioneer set is always an upgrade, but no one ever compared directly to other sets so all we know is that it's better than shit OEM set and its not that expensive.

On the other hand, I noticed on several occasions that some ppl are happy with just adding pioneer D-class amplifier or similiar (that the one used in official pioneer set) and sound insulation the doors. This would actually fit with some opinions from car audio forums, that properly insulated doors with good quality 165mm speakers with appropriate amplifier will give great result, even making subwoofer a nice to have thing rather then a must have one
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you will never get a clear answer on that topic since audio stuff is just way too subjective. I've heard the ars24 set, a custom Focal set, the Deluxe Pack upgrade as well as a few others.

In my opinion the Deluxe Pack does not really improve sound that much, but like I said - it's different for every person. I'm also kinda biased because I absolutely dislike how you are supposed to install the deluxe pack, seems not professional to me.
 
PaZeRa said:
Which amplifier should choose for such setup? 2 way or 4 way (2x channel plus one bridged for sub, which is already an active one)? Is there like any specific spec that I should look for apart from RMS power per channel?
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Well, if you go for an active subwoofer, you will need an amplifier to drive just the front speakers and with a pre-amplified output to carry the signal to the subwoofer (if you want to avoid add an extra hi-lo signal converter).

Now, if you are going to install those Gladen SQX 165s, which have a 2 ohm impedance, you will need a 2 channel amplifier with 2 ohm drives compatibility (aka 4 ohm x 2 channel bridgeable), with at least 30 W RMS for start to moving them, and up to 140 W for a relaxed amp work (this at 2 ohm specified power. 15/70 W RMS at 4 ohm if bridge capable).

For last, in the car audio world you need put attention over other parameters in relation, specially talking about speakers, which are also relevant if not more than the power handling, size and the mentioned impedance. These are sensibility, frequency range and resonance.

I think that the frequency range is easily understandable. A subwoofer can reproduce 20-600 Hz range, a mid-range 500-5000Hz, and the tweeters from 1000 Hz up to 100 KHz (some special high fidelity ones). Out of there, them will start to distortionate the sound or will not be able to reproduce some frequencies.

Resonance is where the speaker cone moves more and more comfortable with less energy needs, or with other words, the optimized frequency of it. So, if you have a sub with resonance of 80Hz, the High/Low pass filter curves should be adjusted to limit the frequency range in order to center it at the resonance frequency (start at 20Hz and end in 140Hz) to get the optimal sound quality at lower electrical consumption.

Sensibility is the most perceptual parameter of a speaker, and it is the division between the acoustic power radiated by itself and the electric consumption. In other words, how much amp power is needed to move the speaker, so more sensibility - less power, with more power and sensibility - more acoustic volume sensation. But more sensibility can carry more or sooner distortion, narrower frequency range or linearity lack (some frequency ranges can be heard more than others).

As example of this, a 35 W /100 dB speaker can produce same acoustic sensation as a 120 W / 90 dB one, or a 120 dB super tweeter/trumpet will be heard more than a SPL subwoofer, but it will distort sound easily, and much more if the frequencies are out of its range (500Hz for example).
 
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@Dj_Nick Holy cow man. :eek:

Your explanation is and overkill but thank you very much for putting here those details in one place. I really appreciate it.

I’ve read a little bit more about car audio and come to a conclusion that in most setups amplifier is quite an expensive part. For example ars24 that offer gladen based hollistic audio upgrade set has an amplifier with integrateddsp for almost half the price of the whole set.

I understand that dsp is required for a fine tuning of the whole setup as oem radio probably have some dsp on its own with hard coded setup only for oem speakers.

I’ve also read that if I’m not expecting a perfect sound but rather some sensible upgrade than I should just start with insulating the doors and adding amplifier for a factory speakers because of the above issue.

Therefore I think I will try to listen to some car audio setups and leave subwoofer as a future option and just focus on upgrading front speakers with a good set like those upper-mid class gladens sqx
 
PaZeRa said:
...
Therefore I think I will try to listen to some car audio setups and leave subwoofer as a future option and just focus on upgrading front speakers with a good set like those upper-mid class gladens sqx
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This is the most sensible way.


Car audio is complicated because:


1. is highly subjective

2. personal experience and also tolerance

3. price and quality


Elaboration on 2. and 3:

A car is a horrible thing for audio. There are different surfaces and materials and angles from all sides. It's pretty much one of the worst listening rooms imaginable.

To make it sound "good" you need phase correction, timing correction and, since there is no way, at least to my knowledge, to preserve the signal before it is equalised by the HU, a lot of equalisation.

So a DSP is a must.


Personal tolerance:

Almost all $100 or so headphones sound better than a 2k+ audio upgrade in material alone.


Then we get to a point where changing the seat position or opening the fabric cover of the sunroof noticeably changes the sound.


Where does one draw the line of a sensible upgrade and at what point is it no longer worth the money?

That's something everyone has to decide for themselves.
 
I mostly agree with you apart from 2 things. 100$ is really not enought for a proper headphones. The best I've found so far cost 600$ and you really can see the difference with lossless audio. But this is for listening to precise sound.

As for cars, once I have occasion to take Infinity G37S for a weekend with its upgraded stereo. I've never ever heard better sounding music than there. Bass was so good and precise that even on high volumes it was not tiring.

I know I will not get on the same baseline with my upgrade but lately I was driving rental bmw x1 with nothing on it. Event its base stereo was substancially better than Hyundai's.

Now I think there are only two sensible solutions for me:
-just add sound isolation on doors plus basic pioneer D1004 D-class amplifier - 300 EUR tops
-change speakers for a good set and add DSP for like a 1000 EUR
 
Here we are about personal tolerance and preference.

Grado SR-80E, about $80 in the USA, 120€ in Germany.
Look like shit. Finishing? what is that?
Precise, low impendance, can be brutally loud without distortion.
The highs on these stand out to me and I have no idea why.
My wet dream headphones.
Plug in anywhere, music comes out.
I really like em.
I've not listened to that many headphones and no real high end cans (I'll better not) but these stand out for me.
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I agree with you, that the standard Hyundai speakers, whatever they are, do barely play music.
They are lacking about everything.
On the 2015 i30 they are even worse.

Savagegeese had that right, not the exact quote but it was like: It's as if you would have thrown a wet cloth over a 80'S boombox.
I think I'm missing resolution and precision in almost all setups I've listened to.
 
I'm after talks with 2 car audio carshops. Basically the current state of the art is that basic stage 1 car audio consist of:
-amplifier with DSP (yep with DSP which cost a lot)
-sound insulationof the doors in which speakers are installed
- at least a decent speaker set - it doesn't have to be that expensive
-subwoofer of any kind (preferred anything better then undeseat one)

Anything below that, like just add pioner d1004 amp with sound insulation of the doors is just an absolute basic stuf which is not really done by car audio specialist. They can insulate your doors but usually amp is fitted by the customer itself cos its cheaper and such clients mostly do it by themself.

Why amp with DSP?
Simply because now all cars have radios integrated with infotainment system so most customers don't wont to change OEM radio. 20 years ago replacing radio units was standard like amp+DSP is today.

My opinion is to do it as cheaply as possible or do a proper stage 1 upgrade. Anything in between is just a waste of money.
 
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On the one hand, a good installer won't go to tell you to go multiple times to mount one thing every one time. For him, it would be ideal to charge you for the labor of disassembling the door or the head unit 2 times, but he also risks breaking something twice, or that once have installed something you decide to not come back, so he will try to sell everything possible, but finally, the installer will do what you say.

On the other hand, as have been commented, car audio is very subjetive to personal perceptions, so may be that if you hear a simple amplified car with good speakers, you consider that is enough for your liking (I consider that any kind of subwoofer is a must), so you will decide for a non DSP amp which usually is cheaper.

On the last, DSP amplifiers has become a must due to its small size that allows to install in poor accesible sites (e.g.: under dash), so a later manually adjustment of a standard amp becomes difficult, but DSPs can be adjusted vía BT, WiFi, or leaving an accesible USB cable.

Another argument is that practically every car has a unique head unit shape, so adapter fascias has become more expensive (I've seen 75€ for the I30 ones, and for 1DIN h.u.) and not all left or have space for an aftermarket h. u., so that money can be used to other things or improve its quality.

Talking about improvements, door insulation is not a must. People I know only recommends it if is notably amplified or is wanted to get the best sound quality. Otherwise, only is added weigh.
 
I measured the max depth of the front speakers. This is 50mm glass to inner panel + 31mm height of the speaker ring.
Total depth 81mm. Leave 5mm of space and the result is 76mm max depth. Why is everyone saying there is only about 60mm of depth?
 
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