Super nice, directly interested in it. The store says that it is not yet tested to fit for the FL. I would then wait until someone tests it and if it fits I'll buy it. Thanks for the great development.
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i30 N Bu11eT's Melody
- Thread starter Bu11eT
- Start date
you can also try to test fit it
obv with a bit of a better price
quite hard to find someone that would test fit it.
Was finally able to integrate the brake disc temp monitoring. Gotta be a fun next trackday in september
Today it was time for another visit with Markus from MTTuning.
The visit had three reasons:
1) Replacement of the stage 1 clutch because it started to slip. We didnt know why since it wasnt that old but it had to be swapped out for something better.
2) Update of the tune. Since last year Markus made quite some progress refining the tune for our cars, so since I had to visit him anyway it was logical to revisit the tune as well.
3) Installation of a gearbox oil temperature sensor
Replacement of the stage 1 clutch
To give you some context: The old clutch was the stage 1 clutch from Markus (which he does not sell anymore) with organic linings. That clutch was supposedly rated up to 600NM and was installed for roughly 10k km. About 500km ago it started slipping when accelerating on the autobahn.
Upon removal it looked like this:
The new clutch that came in is a bit more drastic:
That's Markus' Stage-3 Clutch made by NRC with sinther linings. It does not have a NM rating, but it will likely hold 700NM with ease. So enough room to play around with and to not bother with clutch issues again in the near future.
Tune update
Again some context: Markus is constantly refining his tune and discovering new things he can adapt in the process. And since my tune is more on the older side of his repertoire, an update seemed logical. He changed his old Maha dyno to a more modern dynojet in the meantime as well. And since my car behaved super weird on that old Maha dyno, we were both excited to see what numbers my car could produce on the new one.
The Maha dyno is also known for not simulating accurate real-world loads during a dyno-run - the dynojet is known to be much more realistic in that regard.
We also changed my oil to the Ravenol VMO 5W-40.
The input measurement instantly confirmed our suspicion.
While the old Maha said my car had 367PS and 477NM, the dynojet now showed 384PS and 525NM. This kinda explained the issue with the clutch
After the full day of testing (we validated the different tunes Markus came up with against my EGT monitoring to make sure the car would run cool enough on the Autobahn) we settled on
414ps (only ~352whp because of a 5th gear pull) and 542NM!
Quite a difference to the old tune on the old Maha dyno. I am definitely happy and would not have thought my car could pull this off to be honest. Huge thanks for Markus from MTTuning! Car drove great before the update and drives even better afterwards!
Gearbox oil temperature monitoring
But the journey didn't end there. I was told by Zoki from SpeedEngineering that there is quite some oil temperature madness happening in our gearbox when driving on track. I asked him how he installed his sensor and thanks to his input, I had a good idea on how to mount mine, although it is a bit different to his. I had to do some thread-tapping, but in the end it worked out flawlessly.
Programmed the sensor formula into my Canchecked and here we are
The following temps I was able to log so far:
B-Roads: 65-70C
Autobahn with pedal to the metal: 90C
Now its time to wait for the next trackday. This time at Oschersleben on the 15th of september.
one last thing: we were also able to validate my 3d-printed airbox. It is indeed considerably better than the OEM unit, since the OEM unit caps out at around 390PS (you have to drive without the lid with those numbers). Mine had no issue with 420PS with the lid on. Didn't even show any signs during logging which would indicate the airbox reaching its limit.
The visit had three reasons:
1) Replacement of the stage 1 clutch because it started to slip. We didnt know why since it wasnt that old but it had to be swapped out for something better.
2) Update of the tune. Since last year Markus made quite some progress refining the tune for our cars, so since I had to visit him anyway it was logical to revisit the tune as well.
3) Installation of a gearbox oil temperature sensor
Replacement of the stage 1 clutch
To give you some context: The old clutch was the stage 1 clutch from Markus (which he does not sell anymore) with organic linings. That clutch was supposedly rated up to 600NM and was installed for roughly 10k km. About 500km ago it started slipping when accelerating on the autobahn.
Upon removal it looked like this:
The new clutch that came in is a bit more drastic:
That's Markus' Stage-3 Clutch made by NRC with sinther linings. It does not have a NM rating, but it will likely hold 700NM with ease. So enough room to play around with and to not bother with clutch issues again in the near future.
Tune update
Again some context: Markus is constantly refining his tune and discovering new things he can adapt in the process. And since my tune is more on the older side of his repertoire, an update seemed logical. He changed his old Maha dyno to a more modern dynojet in the meantime as well. And since my car behaved super weird on that old Maha dyno, we were both excited to see what numbers my car could produce on the new one.
The Maha dyno is also known for not simulating accurate real-world loads during a dyno-run - the dynojet is known to be much more realistic in that regard.
We also changed my oil to the Ravenol VMO 5W-40.
The input measurement instantly confirmed our suspicion.
While the old Maha said my car had 367PS and 477NM, the dynojet now showed 384PS and 525NM. This kinda explained the issue with the clutch
After the full day of testing (we validated the different tunes Markus came up with against my EGT monitoring to make sure the car would run cool enough on the Autobahn) we settled on
414ps (only ~352whp because of a 5th gear pull) and 542NM!
Quite a difference to the old tune on the old Maha dyno. I am definitely happy and would not have thought my car could pull this off to be honest. Huge thanks for Markus from MTTuning! Car drove great before the update and drives even better afterwards!
Gearbox oil temperature monitoring
But the journey didn't end there. I was told by Zoki from SpeedEngineering that there is quite some oil temperature madness happening in our gearbox when driving on track. I asked him how he installed his sensor and thanks to his input, I had a good idea on how to mount mine, although it is a bit different to his. I had to do some thread-tapping, but in the end it worked out flawlessly.
Programmed the sensor formula into my Canchecked and here we are
The following temps I was able to log so far:
B-Roads: 65-70C
Autobahn with pedal to the metal: 90C
Now its time to wait for the next trackday. This time at Oschersleben on the 15th of september.
one last thing: we were also able to validate my 3d-printed airbox. It is indeed considerably better than the OEM unit, since the OEM unit caps out at around 390PS (you have to drive without the lid with those numbers). Mine had no issue with 420PS with the lid on. Didn't even show any signs during logging which would indicate the airbox reaching its limit.
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Let's be honest, it's because you can't drive a manual, nothing to do with the car.
why do you have to hate on me all the timeLet's be honest, it's because you can't drive a manual, nothing to do with the car.
.Next time something breaks I'll blame it on you
.
Cannot agree more. He's just an awesome dude! Always great to have him do his tuning magic on my car, and this time we could do some validation-work for his future tunes as well. So a win-win one could sayJoking aside, huge respect for Markus, the new tune must be sick.
Had some time to write another post.
This time its a bit more nerdy than usual, mainly because I was able to properly log a trackday for the first time using my CanChecked.
A few weeks back @Felix, a few buddies and myself attended our "season-closing" Trackday in Oschersleben with Polybauer. It seems our little N Trackday Group got bigger this time
We were six i30Ns and tried to share a single box. Was a tight fit so we preferred to park in front of it
(don't mind the golf on the left, he somehow snuck onto the pic)
Since it was an open pitlane setup, we were able to clock in a solid amount of laps for the day.
I was mainly interesting in my custom sensor setup and what data it would produce.
Here are the results:
Both graphics show the same session.
The data I was most interested in were the "brakedisctempFL" and the "gearboxT" values.
The brakedisctempFL was recording the actual brake disc temperature on the front left with an IR sensor.
The gearboxT was recording the gearbox oil temperature. You can see the install in one of my previous posts.
Since this is only data from one session, I can tell you that the peak value for the front discs was 680°C at one point. And this was with my cooling installed. So hot in fact, that the thermographic paint which is usually used to determine the discs max temperature reading burned completely off. I was running OEM spec brakes with dba performance pads and 4000 T3 discs. This combination was the only reason stuff did not get any hotter, since the pads loose their bite at around 600°C. I'd say with a stock brake with aggressive pads you'd easily exceed the temps even further - depending on the track ofc. But I must say, the dba stuff held up super well. Not even the disc got crooked and I did not even burn through half a pad.
So that was the first learning and I am now convinced, that the OEM Brake on our cars is just not suited for continuous track runs. Like not at all. That's why I already bought the AP Racing Street Kit from SJ-Exclusive. Will get mounted sometime during the winter break.
Second learning was the gearbox oil temperature. You can see that it keeps rising and rising, and I'd say on a hotter day and a bit longer sessions than I had, this becomes a problem. So next step for me is to revise a cooling setup for the gearbox to make sure the oil stays a bit cooler. 120C is already on the limit of what I would deem acceptable.
And third learning was that the revised mapping with Markus from MTTuning paid off. The additional runs on the autobahn to dial the lambda-setup in was absolutely worth it. Just look at the exhaust gas temperatures. It was hot but it never exceeded 950C. So super happy to know the car runs in a safe range.
If you have any questions regarding the data or are missing some values, I'm happy to provide additional info (if I actually have the data lol^^).
Also a word to the suspension setup. If you remember I now run a KW V3 Clubsport with modified strut bearings and different spring rates. After tweaking the dampers a bit, I can now say that this suspension is a beast. Was super controllable and super nice to drive in terms of body roll! Back home I just changed the clicks back to what they previously were and now its super comfy again. Love it!
So you see, lots of fun and I already have ideas and plans for the next changes that will come along
This time its a bit more nerdy than usual, mainly because I was able to properly log a trackday for the first time using my CanChecked.
A few weeks back @Felix, a few buddies and myself attended our "season-closing" Trackday in Oschersleben with Polybauer. It seems our little N Trackday Group got bigger this time
We were six i30Ns and tried to share a single box. Was a tight fit so we preferred to park in front of it
(don't mind the golf on the left, he somehow snuck onto the pic
)Since it was an open pitlane setup, we were able to clock in a solid amount of laps for the day.
I was mainly interesting in my custom sensor setup and what data it would produce.
Here are the results:
Both graphics show the same session.
The data I was most interested in were the "brakedisctempFL" and the "gearboxT" values.
The brakedisctempFL was recording the actual brake disc temperature on the front left with an IR sensor.
The gearboxT was recording the gearbox oil temperature. You can see the install in one of my previous posts.
Since this is only data from one session, I can tell you that the peak value for the front discs was 680°C at one point. And this was with my cooling installed. So hot in fact, that the thermographic paint which is usually used to determine the discs max temperature reading burned completely off. I was running OEM spec brakes with dba performance pads and 4000 T3 discs. This combination was the only reason stuff did not get any hotter, since the pads loose their bite at around 600°C. I'd say with a stock brake with aggressive pads you'd easily exceed the temps even further - depending on the track ofc. But I must say, the dba stuff held up super well. Not even the disc got crooked and I did not even burn through half a pad.
So that was the first learning and I am now convinced, that the OEM Brake on our cars is just not suited for continuous track runs. Like not at all. That's why I already bought the AP Racing Street Kit from SJ-Exclusive. Will get mounted sometime during the winter break.
Second learning was the gearbox oil temperature. You can see that it keeps rising and rising, and I'd say on a hotter day and a bit longer sessions than I had, this becomes a problem. So next step for me is to revise a cooling setup for the gearbox to make sure the oil stays a bit cooler. 120C is already on the limit of what I would deem acceptable.
And third learning was that the revised mapping with Markus from MTTuning paid off. The additional runs on the autobahn to dial the lambda-setup in was absolutely worth it. Just look at the exhaust gas temperatures. It was hot but it never exceeded 950C. So super happy to know the car runs in a safe range.
If you have any questions regarding the data or are missing some values, I'm happy to provide additional info (if I actually have the data lol^^).
Also a word to the suspension setup. If you remember I now run a KW V3 Clubsport with modified strut bearings and different spring rates. After tweaking the dampers a bit, I can now say that this suspension is a beast. Was super controllable and super nice to drive in terms of body roll! Back home I just changed the clicks back to what they previously were and now its super comfy again. Love it!
So you see, lots of fun and I already have ideas and plans for the next changes that will come along
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Appreciate your post everytime, about the datas you log. I find it very interesting what you can get out of an korean car manufactor as an Trackbeast.
I had some E-Mail conversation with Udo Frey from Nexd Racing. Like you mentioned in your Post, for the People trying to get a really nice Trackbuild car, one of the first mods will be the brakes. The stock ones will get you arround the Nürbugring quite happily some laps but the lifespan of the stock rotors or pads are just ridiculously bad.
My Original Brake Rotor broke after a session on the Lausitzring because of the treatment in terms of fast changing hot and cold conditions. After that I tried the dba4000 Series with the Pads from Nexd Racing on the Nürburgring. Quite interessting to feel that the brakes felt way less stressed on high temperatures. They had marks on the rotor for the temperatures you have exceeded. Couldnt bring it over 550°C.
I will also get the AP Street Kit next Year done on my Trackbuild car, which pads do you prefer? I think I might get the Pagid ones.
I had some E-Mail conversation with Udo Frey from Nexd Racing. Like you mentioned in your Post, for the People trying to get a really nice Trackbuild car, one of the first mods will be the brakes. The stock ones will get you arround the Nürbugring quite happily some laps but the lifespan of the stock rotors or pads are just ridiculously bad.
My Original Brake Rotor broke after a session on the Lausitzring because of the treatment in terms of fast changing hot and cold conditions. After that I tried the dba4000 Series with the Pads from Nexd Racing on the Nürburgring. Quite interessting to feel that the brakes felt way less stressed on high temperatures. They had marks on the rotor for the temperatures you have exceeded. Couldnt bring it over 550°C.
I will also get the AP Street Kit next Year done on my Trackbuild car, which pads do you prefer? I think I might get the Pagid ones.
Thank you!
yep, I know Udo too , had some chat in person last year when we visited him. He told us the same regarding the brakes!
I am in close contact with Stefan (the owner of SJ-exclusive) about this topic.
I will start with Ferodo DS2500 for the street (since I still daily drive my car) and Endless MX87 for the track. I will do the initial testing regarding temperatures, etc because he changed the supplier of the rotors, so we need to collect a bit of data. In the beginning of next season after the first 1-2 trackdays I might be able to shed some light on how the MX87 pads perform (in terms of braking performance and heat development).
@Bu11eT
I will wait for your experiences with the ap street Kit, because I'm also struggling with problems concerning the OEM Brakes.
I'm using my i30n Performance as daily driver mostly on the german Autobahn and spirited driving on country roads.
Breaking at speeds from 220km/h or higher, leads to an overheating of the rotors.
That's why I'm looking for floating rotors and a better brake cooling system. If all comes with 4-piston brake callipers it will be fine for me.
I will wait for your experiences with the ap street Kit, because I'm also struggling with problems concerning the OEM Brakes.
I'm using my i30n Performance as daily driver mostly on the german Autobahn and spirited driving on country roads.
Breaking at speeds from 220km/h or higher, leads to an overheating of the rotors.
That's why I'm looking for floating rotors and a better brake cooling system. If all comes with 4-piston brake callipers it will be fine for me.
If you just daily drive your car, stick to the OEM caliper setup. Find a good rotor/pad combo (e.g. with heat-treated rotors if you are scared of warping them) and stick some brake cooling on it. I found that my own brake cooling setup works totally fine even when emergency braking on the autobahn. I am in the process of installing an additional IR-Temp sensor, so I can do a comparison with my cooling setup on the front right, and no additional cooling on the front left. Just have to figure out a proper test setup.
Going the AP Street route for daily driving only is just shooting sparrows with cannons
That would me helping a lot. I'm really interested in your test results for the brake cooling system.
In my previos 2 cars (upgraded Peugeot RC WRC Edition 2 and my heavely tuned Mazda 3 BK) I've driven Brembo 4-piston callipers with bigger Brake Rotors. DBA was my favoured Brand. For my i30n I would also tend to DBA discs.
In my previos 2 cars (upgraded Peugeot RC WRC Edition 2 and my heavely tuned Mazda 3 BK) I've driven Brembo 4-piston callipers with bigger Brake Rotors. DBA was my favoured Brand. For my i30n I would also tend to DBA discs.
will post the results here as soon as I had the time to mount and configure everything and when I came up with a proper and repeatable testing methodology.
Hello mate!
Nice too see another Zestino user
I have the 07RS compound and can confirm your story. The RS compound is good up to 20°C ambient temperature and if the sun shines on the tarmac they get hot and greasy pretty fast...
Sadly most trackdays in Europe are in the spring/summer so the RS tires can't really be used during this period or atleast not for long sessions.
I will also buy a harder compound when they are gone. I feel like the GY F1 Supersports are a better trackday tire than a semislick due to this soft compound
Hey,Hello mate!
Nice too see another Zestino user
I have the 07RS compound and can confirm your story. The RS compound is good up to 20°C ambient temperature and if the sun shines on the tarmac they get hot and greasy pretty fast...
Sadly most trackdays in Europe are in the spring/summer so the RS tires can't really be used during this period or atleast not for long sessions.
I will also buy a harder compound when they are gone. I feel like the GY F1 Supersports are a better trackday tire than a semislick due to this soft compound
I actually spoke to the guy from Zestino France and he told me the Zestino RS is a time attack tire. So good for 1-2 fast laps and then it'll start smearing. The Zestino R is their trackday tire. Didn't know that upon purchasing the RS, but maybe its important info
Also, the Zestinos are designed to run on relatively low pressures. 2.0 bar hot is on the upper limit on what the tire is intended to do. 1.8-1.9 bar hot is their ideal range. You can even run them on 1.6 bar cold and the tire will handle it if you don't punish it too hard in the beginning.
So a few things I did wrong with the RS initially. The R feels way better in that regard, but obv. it doesn't have the same grip levels since its a 240TW tire).
2 bar hot is very low indeed. I start at 1.8 bar cold and the tires will go about 2.2-2.3 hot. I'm scared the tires will come off the rims staring lower than 1.8 bar
Good to know I'm not the only one that has made the wrong compound choice! Racing is a good but expensive learning school.
Good to know I'm not the only one that has made the wrong compound choice! Racing is a good but expensive learning school.