I wanted to share my thoughts on the Veloster N with Performance Pack in reference to another car that people may cross shop, assuming the price gap isn't a concern.
For context, I had a MK6 GTI, an MK6 Golf R (eventually tuned to stage 2+) then an MK7 Golf R with some mods I'll touch on below. All these were manuals.
Driving Experience:
Overall, there is a big character difference between the cars. Effectively, the Golf R drives like a GT car. It's very powerful, (feels underrated, even before I tuned it to around 300whp) launches hard with the AWD, and feels at home on the freeway at speed. It's decent in corners, but much prefers sweepers rather than hairpins.
The N, is more nimble, more eager to take turns hard, more focused as a driver's car. Still quite competent freeway speed and comfortable in Normal mode.
Drive Modes:
Speaking of drive modes, the Golf R does have 3 modes; Comfort, Normal and Race. Comfort is far softer than the N's normal mode. The suspension is quite pliable and steering becomes very light. Outside of very rough roads, I didn't find it very pleasant. The car loses confidence at speed and feels floaty. The steering in the R is super quick at 2.1 turns lock to lock and in Comfort mode, it makes the car twitchy.
Race mode in the R is about as stiff as Normal mode in the N. I basically left it in that mode at all times. Unlike the N, throttle response doesn't change which I think is a big part of why the R always feels like a GT car. Even in Race mode, throttle inputs too sluggish, with a noticeable dead space at initial tip in. This makes the car very smooth and easy to drive, but makes heal towing a major pain. You have to tip into the accelerator farther and for a longer than average which makes heal towing feel sluggish and nearly useless. The RPMs drop and rise fast enough, but the pedal delay makes the car feel lazy.
The N's drive modes change the car's character much more dramatically. The car adjusts suspension firmness, steering weight, pedal sensitivity, engine responsiveness, LSD responsiveness, and of course that wonderful exhaust noise. In Normal mode, the car is smooth and subdued. It feels like a GT cruiser in this mode and is quite close to the R's Normal mode. You can tell Germans did the tuning in this thing. N mode (or N custom) totally changes the cars behavior making it eager and sharp.
It's worth mentioning that this LSD is quite an engineering feat. Mixed with the FWD format, the front turns in at nearly unreal angles and the back will smoothly and predictably slide out if you let it and have the ESC in sport of off. The R, at least the 2016 model, doesn't have an LSD. It uses a Haldex clutch to send power to the rear when needed and brake torque vectoring when cornering. It's not the same. Not even close. The back won't come out on you, but the car has a far higher tendency to understeer. Come in too hot and you will need to brake to slow yourself enough to take the corner rather than plow. In the N, come in too hot and just let off the gas. The car will turn hard into the corner. Gas it at the apex and you will rocket out back onto a straight. Way fun.
Interior:
It's no secret VW's have stellar interior quality. Soft touch plastics all over. A flowing sense of design where every detail feels thought out. Lot's of variance in materials used giving a overall sense of quality only surpassed by luxury brands. BUT this is where the N surprised me the most. Yes, the door panels and dash are hard, cheap looking plastic, but the things the driver engages with are actually far superior in the N. The steering wheel, pedals, shifter, and seats are all better.
I think this is important so I'll break these down individually:
Steering Wheel-
R- Nice looking, but thin diameter with really cheap leather. Doesn't fit the quality of the rest of the car.
N- Thicker, padded, higher quality leather. A joy to hold
Pedals-
R- Spacing isn't as good. Heal tow shifting is clumsy. Dead zone on initial accelerator tip in. Brake pedal has hard initial bite, but loses stopping power on harder presses. Clutch feels like nothing. It's super light to the point where you wonder if it's actually connected to anything, or just electronic. Grab point is quite high. Nearly half way up the pedal travel, again making driving smoothly easy, but not very sporty.
N- Better spacing, no accelerator dead zone. Brakes have good bite, but also stay firm and linear when pressed hard. Clutch is still light, but feels mechanical. Bites close to the floor, still easy to modulate.
Shifter-
R- Like the clutch, feels like nothing. Loose and rubbery. It's not hard to find a gear and takes nearly no effort to just tip from gear to gear. Between the R's clutch and shifter, it really feels like the manual was a total afterthought. It's not engaging and the car feels much better suited in DSG form where super fast shifts and a computer can perfectly sync with the tuning on the rest of the drive train. Actually, most of my complaints on engagement are ironically solved with the DSG. Don't need to think about dead zones and pedal travel if you don't need to heal tow or work the clutch, for example.
N- The shifter is solid. No play. Easy to place from gear to gear, but inspires confidence and rewards it's use.
Seats-
R-Leather, but the cheap stuff. It doesn't hold up well over time and are a tad wider making the bolsters less useful. You slide around more on the leather and aren't held in much by the bolsters. This was the area I was most disappointed with. The MK6 had fantastic seats. Better leather, well bolstered and great lumbar support. I could never get comfortable lumbar support in the MK7. Unlike the MK6, moving the back support seems to just push the whole back of the seat out. It can't really be focused on a specific zone of your back. I resorted to just using a back pillow on longer drives.
N- Very comfy seats. I prefer the cloth. It feels durable although a bit scratchy when new on bare arms. Slightly tighter bolsters, but with the cloth you don't move around at all. GREAT lumbar support. You can really dial it to where you want it and it can be very firm to quite soft.
In the end, I modified quite a bit on the MK7 R and never felt satisfied. Pedalbox to remove pedal deadzone and increase response. JB1 tune with intake and catback to make the engine and sound sharper and more engaging. Dogbone bushing insert to remove engine movement and laggy feel when accelerating or braking, steering wheel wrap to improve thickness and quality. Shifter bushings to remove the lose feel.
The take away for me, is that the R feels relaxed. It's a great car if you just want to cruise it and take a back road here and there. If you want something more sharp and nimble. It's either never ending mods, or a different car. The N's split personality and higher quality with things the driver touches makes it much more fun. I got the R for $32k due to some discounts during DieselGate. At that price and for the right person, I think it's a great value. Today, the R goes for $40k. At an $11,000 price gap, the R no longer is a value. It's NOT $11k better of a car. Even though it is faster.
The Veloster N is, in my opinion, the best performance and comfort value available today anywhere near this price point. I think the price gap on these cars proves that.
Thoughts?
Edited as I was wrong about the Golf R manual. It still exists.
For context, I had a MK6 GTI, an MK6 Golf R (eventually tuned to stage 2+) then an MK7 Golf R with some mods I'll touch on below. All these were manuals.
Driving Experience:
Overall, there is a big character difference between the cars. Effectively, the Golf R drives like a GT car. It's very powerful, (feels underrated, even before I tuned it to around 300whp) launches hard with the AWD, and feels at home on the freeway at speed. It's decent in corners, but much prefers sweepers rather than hairpins.
The N, is more nimble, more eager to take turns hard, more focused as a driver's car. Still quite competent freeway speed and comfortable in Normal mode.
Drive Modes:
Speaking of drive modes, the Golf R does have 3 modes; Comfort, Normal and Race. Comfort is far softer than the N's normal mode. The suspension is quite pliable and steering becomes very light. Outside of very rough roads, I didn't find it very pleasant. The car loses confidence at speed and feels floaty. The steering in the R is super quick at 2.1 turns lock to lock and in Comfort mode, it makes the car twitchy.
Race mode in the R is about as stiff as Normal mode in the N. I basically left it in that mode at all times. Unlike the N, throttle response doesn't change which I think is a big part of why the R always feels like a GT car. Even in Race mode, throttle inputs too sluggish, with a noticeable dead space at initial tip in. This makes the car very smooth and easy to drive, but makes heal towing a major pain. You have to tip into the accelerator farther and for a longer than average which makes heal towing feel sluggish and nearly useless. The RPMs drop and rise fast enough, but the pedal delay makes the car feel lazy.
The N's drive modes change the car's character much more dramatically. The car adjusts suspension firmness, steering weight, pedal sensitivity, engine responsiveness, LSD responsiveness, and of course that wonderful exhaust noise. In Normal mode, the car is smooth and subdued. It feels like a GT cruiser in this mode and is quite close to the R's Normal mode. You can tell Germans did the tuning in this thing. N mode (or N custom) totally changes the cars behavior making it eager and sharp.
It's worth mentioning that this LSD is quite an engineering feat. Mixed with the FWD format, the front turns in at nearly unreal angles and the back will smoothly and predictably slide out if you let it and have the ESC in sport of off. The R, at least the 2016 model, doesn't have an LSD. It uses a Haldex clutch to send power to the rear when needed and brake torque vectoring when cornering. It's not the same. Not even close. The back won't come out on you, but the car has a far higher tendency to understeer. Come in too hot and you will need to brake to slow yourself enough to take the corner rather than plow. In the N, come in too hot and just let off the gas. The car will turn hard into the corner. Gas it at the apex and you will rocket out back onto a straight. Way fun.
Interior:
It's no secret VW's have stellar interior quality. Soft touch plastics all over. A flowing sense of design where every detail feels thought out. Lot's of variance in materials used giving a overall sense of quality only surpassed by luxury brands. BUT this is where the N surprised me the most. Yes, the door panels and dash are hard, cheap looking plastic, but the things the driver engages with are actually far superior in the N. The steering wheel, pedals, shifter, and seats are all better.
I think this is important so I'll break these down individually:
Steering Wheel-
R- Nice looking, but thin diameter with really cheap leather. Doesn't fit the quality of the rest of the car.
N- Thicker, padded, higher quality leather. A joy to hold
Pedals-
R- Spacing isn't as good. Heal tow shifting is clumsy. Dead zone on initial accelerator tip in. Brake pedal has hard initial bite, but loses stopping power on harder presses. Clutch feels like nothing. It's super light to the point where you wonder if it's actually connected to anything, or just electronic. Grab point is quite high. Nearly half way up the pedal travel, again making driving smoothly easy, but not very sporty.
N- Better spacing, no accelerator dead zone. Brakes have good bite, but also stay firm and linear when pressed hard. Clutch is still light, but feels mechanical. Bites close to the floor, still easy to modulate.
Shifter-
R- Like the clutch, feels like nothing. Loose and rubbery. It's not hard to find a gear and takes nearly no effort to just tip from gear to gear. Between the R's clutch and shifter, it really feels like the manual was a total afterthought. It's not engaging and the car feels much better suited in DSG form where super fast shifts and a computer can perfectly sync with the tuning on the rest of the drive train. Actually, most of my complaints on engagement are ironically solved with the DSG. Don't need to think about dead zones and pedal travel if you don't need to heal tow or work the clutch, for example.
N- The shifter is solid. No play. Easy to place from gear to gear, but inspires confidence and rewards it's use.
Seats-
R-Leather, but the cheap stuff. It doesn't hold up well over time and are a tad wider making the bolsters less useful. You slide around more on the leather and aren't held in much by the bolsters. This was the area I was most disappointed with. The MK6 had fantastic seats. Better leather, well bolstered and great lumbar support. I could never get comfortable lumbar support in the MK7. Unlike the MK6, moving the back support seems to just push the whole back of the seat out. It can't really be focused on a specific zone of your back. I resorted to just using a back pillow on longer drives.
N- Very comfy seats. I prefer the cloth. It feels durable although a bit scratchy when new on bare arms. Slightly tighter bolsters, but with the cloth you don't move around at all. GREAT lumbar support. You can really dial it to where you want it and it can be very firm to quite soft.
In the end, I modified quite a bit on the MK7 R and never felt satisfied. Pedalbox to remove pedal deadzone and increase response. JB1 tune with intake and catback to make the engine and sound sharper and more engaging. Dogbone bushing insert to remove engine movement and laggy feel when accelerating or braking, steering wheel wrap to improve thickness and quality. Shifter bushings to remove the lose feel.
The take away for me, is that the R feels relaxed. It's a great car if you just want to cruise it and take a back road here and there. If you want something more sharp and nimble. It's either never ending mods, or a different car. The N's split personality and higher quality with things the driver touches makes it much more fun. I got the R for $32k due to some discounts during DieselGate. At that price and for the right person, I think it's a great value. Today, the R goes for $40k. At an $11,000 price gap, the R no longer is a value. It's NOT $11k better of a car. Even though it is faster.
The Veloster N is, in my opinion, the best performance and comfort value available today anywhere near this price point. I think the price gap on these cars proves that.
Thoughts?
Edited as I was wrong about the Golf R manual. It still exists.
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