-
Welcome to N-cars.net - the largest Hyundai N car forum. Check out the model specific sections below and scroll down for country specific forums. Scroll down for i30 N, Ioniq 5 N, i20 N, Veloster N and Kona N forums! Check out the i30 N Bible Here!
i30 N Clutch replacement
- Thread starter malimajk
- Start date
Here are the pics.
First pic shows the outer part (golden) of the 2nd-gear-syncronizer ring. The stuff in the bag on pic #2 contains the leftovers of the inner part of the same ring.
Diagnosis from Markus' side was that the vibrations introduced to the gearbox (because a SMF was used) let to the inner coating of the synchronizer ring coming loose.
Also note from his side: The inner parts of the gearbox used in the i30N is totally different to the parts of the VN or Elantra N.
Pics are courtesy of Markus from MTTuning. Thanks to him for providing them.
First pic shows the outer part (golden) of the 2nd-gear-syncronizer ring. The stuff in the bag on pic #2 contains the leftovers of the inner part of the same ring.
Diagnosis from Markus' side was that the vibrations introduced to the gearbox (because a SMF was used) let to the inner coating of the synchronizer ring coming loose.
Also note from his side: The inner parts of the gearbox used in the i30N is totally different to the parts of the VN or Elantra N.
Pics are courtesy of Markus from MTTuning. Thanks to him for providing them.
Attachments
I appreciate you following thru. I see the failure however;
Just curious; you said Markus indicated “the i30N is totally different from the VN and EN.” Being that neither is sold in Europe, how did he come to this conclusion?
I ask this because, there’s little to no difference in parts crossover and assembly. I’ve never know Hyundai to make a separate drive train for any of the N-model cars wih exception to the DCT of which there is one used for all.
I can confirm the EN and VN definitely utilize the same transmissions assembles. They‘re a straight swap over. I’ll do some additional parts comparisons between the three. I‘m curious to know what actual differences exist if any. I have access to a dealers part catalog for both and I’ll post what I find.
Did he indicate if the SMF within tolerances required, without any runout?
I’m a bit confused as to why, just the second gear synchronizer failed and others didn’t. The same vibrations are transmitted thru the entire gear cluster and housing. So, all will be subject to the same vibrations.
Generally when one synchronizer fails, the others will in sequence fail. In my experience, it’s a rarity for just one to fail unless that specific synchronizer is faulty, flawed or simply poorly manufactured.
Just curious; you said Markus indicated “the i30N is totally different from the VN and EN.” Being that neither is sold in Europe, how did he come to this conclusion?
I ask this because, there’s little to no difference in parts crossover and assembly. I’ve never know Hyundai to make a separate drive train for any of the N-model cars wih exception to the DCT of which there is one used for all.
I can confirm the EN and VN definitely utilize the same transmissions assembles. They‘re a straight swap over. I’ll do some additional parts comparisons between the three. I‘m curious to know what actual differences exist if any. I have access to a dealers part catalog for both and I’ll post what I find.
Did he indicate if the SMF within tolerances required, without any runout?
I’m a bit confused as to why, just the second gear synchronizer failed and others didn’t. The same vibrations are transmitted thru the entire gear cluster and housing. So, all will be subject to the same vibrations.
Generally when one synchronizer fails, the others will in sequence fail. In my experience, it’s a rarity for just one to fail unless that specific synchronizer is faulty, flawed or simply poorly manufactured.
Markus investigated the i30N failures in depth and also looked for possible solutions. Other N tuners hinted at the VN gearbox innards as a potential upgrade to the i30N. He bought a VN gearbox and disassembled it, finding the mentioned differences.
In general the VN gearbox has stronger innards compared to the i30N one.
Not sure I get your question. If you mean whether the SMF was in spec, then yes. All of the SMFs he put in the cars at the time were on spec and went under a quality inspection before they went in the car and also when he removed them later on as well.
yep, this is also the thing which Markus said he did not fully understand. Some of the gearbox experts hinted to the failed coating of the second synchronizer being different to the coating of the other ones, but I am afraid I don't have further details on this.I’m a bit confused as to why, just the second gear synchronizer failed and others didn’t. The same vibrations are transmitted thru the entire gear cluster and housing. So, all will be subject to the same vibrations.
Generally when one synchronizer fails, the others will in sequence fail. In my experience, it’s a rarity for just one to fail unless that specific synchronizer is faulty, flawed or simply poorly manufactured.
To conclude I can say that the investigation is not yet completed, but it also is not Markus' highest priority, since the solution is to just run with DMFs for the time being. This not does limit the torque in any way and also does introduce any disadvantages so he just went that route and it seems to work fine for him and his clients running this setup (myself included).
This basically summarizes why I would advise against running a SMF and sticking to a DMF setup.
My two cents: There are products on the market for the i30N already. Just use those and skip the SMF setup. It's just the safer and the more proven way right now.
Appreciate the response and follow up!
If an SMF is not verified for runout tolerance before clutch installation and it’s to extreme, it can cause allot of additional vibration transmitted thru the trans, causing a greatly shortened service length. Even thought manufactures claim their SMF and DMF are within OEM runout specifications, they can be beyond the required specs. We’ve seen it many times and is attributed to machining variations due production.
OEM and aftermarket manufacturers don’t QC each SMF or DMF. They set up the production specifications and let them run. They periodically pull units from the production line to check tolerances.
It’s always proper procedure to inspect the flywheel for runout, before the clutch installed. Most of the time we’ll do it before on the bench and then after mount up. If there is any variation beyond OEM specs, the SMF will be replaced.
I appreciate you going the extra mile, including your candor in the discussion. If there’s a chance the SMF will cause a problem in the Hyundai N transmission, I’m all ears. I’ll simply pull the trans and do a complete inspection.
We’re preparing to dissemble the engine for a performance build. So, it’s not much more work to pull the trans, do the inspection and replace the necessary parts an/or move over to a custom DMF. I don’t really like utilizing them in a high performance application. There’s more to fail. However……………..
Thank you for the input.
Yep no worries.
I don't think you are into trouble with your VN gearbox.
Just wanna alert the i30N owners that there is a high chance such a failure can happen - nothing more.
I don't think you are into trouble with your VN gearbox.
Just wanna alert the i30N owners that there is a high chance such a failure can happen - nothing more.
soo whats the best clutch you can get on the market?
im still running the OEM clutch with a stage2 tune
im still running the OEM clutch with a stage2 tune
but what are you fine to sacrifice for a better clutch? what max torque rating are you looking for - are you planning to stay with a simple stage2 tune or are you looking for more performance?i agree but i mean everyone is looking for a better performance clutch
you cant just ask for the best clutch and provide no info what you are looking for
Best clutch for a stage 2but what are you fine to sacrifice for a better clutch? what max torque rating are you looking for - are you planning to stay with a simple stage2 tune or are you looking for more performance?
you cant just ask for the best clutch and provide no info what you are looking for