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Tuning i20N Engine & ECU Tuning Discussion

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and to think i reopened the post to update on MY findings and provide the community with a little bit of insider info 😂 clearly touched a nerve

gpaaa said:
My friend, presicion is something very important. Because from your "reckons", to my proof is far away. I put the link of the Klassens sum up, so you can not only "reckon" but see the presice numbers for yourself.
To make the long story short, with 102 ron and asking the turbo charger to work continiously at 100% and tricking the "maf" limiting factor klassen did 264 at the max. This was only a test, so as to see the maximum power the car can make when all time the charger works at 100 per cent. In reality, that means a damage turbo charger for sure, thats why klassen provides stage two with a horsepower of MAX 255 and that is what customers of Klassen and courteney are receiving.
Now with your advanced Iq, you make stupid assumptions like my car ran 188hp, while others run 215, so there is a margin of 27 hp to be found, so 265 of klassen + 27 = 292!!. My friend, you are totally ignorant about science and mechanics. I am afraid things do not work like that!
But your ignorance is not what bothers me. What really bothers me is your attitude, your insults to someone who has provide very precise and accurate info based on personal research, multiple dynos and other things so as to warn users of the forum and tell them the truth.
You are so stupid, that you still believe that your car made 188, while in the first "terrible dyno tune", your cant understand that they made fun of you.
And to back up what i mean by that, check the losses of your car printed on dyno runs. On the same car , on the same dyno, losses cannot differ by 12 horsepower. In the "stock"form they present losses of 61 horsepower and after their tune, present losses of 49. To make the long story short, they had no idea and fucked your maps for good. Furthermore they fooled you by changing the losses of the car, thus presenting more power after their "tune" ( your car made stock 188 +12 of the losses they hidden = 200 horsepower)

LAST but not least, the fact is that Klassen did not achieve 275 but 264 with 102 ron once and only for testing max efficiency purposes, and every other thing you make with your mind means nothing and are only foolish assumptions.
Of cource I wont message you or wont comment other usefull things about your new "tune" because i strongly believe you have not take your lesson yet and i will let you continue the great fun factor of thinking that you know everything and i am just a prick.
Just for the record, i have measure more than 25 i20ns many many times, and all models from 2021 to 2023 had from 199 to 205 and all models after 2023 when hyundsi changed the maps had from 204 to 210
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so you know when i said message me... i didn't mean go off on the rant of the century for everyone to see you spit your dummy out. If you're a leading authority on the subject, why does my opinion bother you so much? :3
 
I remember when car forums would post: heres the list of all my mods, heres who did my tune and heres the graph; and then people would offer support or suggestions that were helpful.
Those were the days.
 
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6ixxer said:
I remember when car forums would post: heres the list of all my mods, heres who did my tune and heres the graph; and then people would offer support or suggestions that were helpful.
Those were the days.
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And when people who claimed to know the solution to a problem actually shared that with their fellows, instead of gloating over their struggles.
 
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In the U.K. there are two main players in the i20N tuning game, Courtenay Sport and BIg Fish Garage. With other makes of cars many tuners use the same maps but, in this case, CS and BFG seem to have developed their tunes independently and so achieve interestingly different results.

There always seems to be a balance between horsepower and torque and this can be seen in the tunes from these different tuners. CS aim for reduced torque but with a linear and more extended power curve whilst BF prioritise torque but at the expense of linearity and, ultimately, a slightly lower top end.

However, looking at these recent dyno results from BFG they have made significant progress with their tune and it’s now much more linear - so development is clearly being made. CS (I don’t think they are alone in this) believe that the stock turbo is the limiting factor and that mid 250hp Is the maximum achievable (with U.K. fuel):purely from an EC tune but I believe the ECU is still not fully cracked as it is with many other brands (VAG for example).

My own car has loads of mods including a stage 2 tune (255 hp) by CS, but I think the supporting mods - exhaust, intake and intercooler add negligible benefits relative to the tune (dyno results seem to support this). In about a month CS are fitting a hybrid turbo (a modified and rebuilt version of the stock turbo) and low 300 hp is expected, but we shall have to see - I will post the results once it’s been done 👍.

Oh, obviously these power results are dependant on the fuel used and, as previously posted, Germany has higher RON fuel than available in the U.K. A lot of the map development for my car was done in Germany and I know it would achieve higher hp if tested there with more potent fuel - but that’s all rather academic as I’m not in Germany 😆.

Another thing to consider is that whilst ever increasing power is, in principal, great, it’s not much use if you can’t get grip and front wheel drive cars definitely have their limitations in this regard - worth considering I think. Also, I don’t want to have to fit a racing clutch or do a gearbox rebuild….

Finally (I promise), one aspect that is rarely discussed is how the car is held down in the dyno as this can significantly impact the results - both how it is tethered and how tightly it is held down. And then there is tyre grip etc.
 
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Zealot said:
And when people who claimed to know the solution to a problem actually shared that with their fellows, instead of gloating over their struggles.
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We'd take photos and write descriptions step by step of how we got the trims off, run wiring, adjust things, what to cut and what to DEFINITELY NOT cut and then others have a guide to follow.

We'd arrange garage days and all get together to work on stuff, but now people just pay someone to do the stuff. I think people used to know more and share more when they got their hands dirty themselves. We've got end results without the wisdom.

I kindof understand though. I have way less time to put in than i used to. My last car i didnt mod at all despite having it 10 years. Now with the i20N i'm hoping to be a bit more involved because i remember what that felt like.
 
I think that’s a slightly negative view of the situation. The i20N is a low numbers car and so the number of owners willing to wrench on their own cars is similarly lower. If you want a large community of owners you need to look at cars that have been in production for years like the VW Golf or Ford Fiesta. Also, you have to separate the interests of hobby enthusiasts (like me) from those who earn their living from working in the business. I can speculate as to what is going on in the i20Ns ECU but if I were making my living working on these cars I would be much more guarded in sharing my knowledge. I think it’s unfair to say people don’t share their experience, I’ve learned a lot from peoples ‘how to’ posts and I’ve posted details of the mods I’ve done and how to do them yourself (on my car ownership thread). ECU tuning is not really a DIY job - in theory it could be but the reality is it requires a level of specific knowledge, equipment and experience that is just not achievable for most.
 
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6ixxer said:
We'd take photos and write descriptions step by step of how we got the trims off, run wiring, adjust things, what to cut and what to DEFINITELY NOT cut and then others have a guide to follow.

We'd arrange garage days and all get together to work on stuff, but now people just pay someone to do the stuff. I think people used to know more and share more when they got their hands dirty themselves. We've got end results without the wisdom.

I kindof understand though. I have way less time to put in than i used to. My last car i didnt mod at all despite having it 10 years. Now with the i20N i'm hoping to be a bit more involved because i remember what that felt like.
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I've fitted all my mods myself but the actual tuning aspect is a WHOOOLE different kettle of fish, just to give you an idea of what you're looking at when you pull up an ECU file in winols, here you go:
IMG_20251011_121810_236.jpg

now you need to understand what all those blocks do, where they execute in a logic path, how changing them affects the cars operation, how they're scaled, how they're measured and what safe values are based on the engine and it's weak point.
 
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Hi team,

Totally agree with @YNWaN and also my respect to @gpaaa . Ok, i recognize the tension in the latest discussion in this channel but, even from such things, i have learnt a lot about the infamous ECU of our car (speaking as a reader - observer).

Cheers
 
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By the way, revisiting..

I've become reasonably sure that the 1x1 limiting the boost to 18 psi on some tunes still is located at offset 3894C8, converted using a Bosch (and subsequently Kefico) value 1/12.8 or 0.078125 this sits as a perfect 2300 (hPa) which is exactly 18 psi/1.3 bar + atmospheric pressure. To the left at 3894C6 there's another map that is 2400 converted and lower down at 3FFB8C and 3FFBF8 are values that convert to 1796 and 1265. Although I personally am not 100% sure on how you'd label these, the 2300 value has got to be the "Absolute Maximum Manifold Pressure" 1x1 that certain tuners are still trying to charge 1000+ for lol

Edit: the 2 lower values at the 3FFB8C and 3FFBF8 are checksums I reckon. These need changing to the correct value for whatever you put in the map segments but for 9600 (3000 hPa and the max value of the MAP sensor which translates to about 1.7 bar or 25 psi relative boost give or take depending on exact atmospheric pressure), the values you need to put in each checksum are 9AD8 and C142 respectively
 
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looks like the qld guys have some time in the trenches ahead of them to improve their tune. it'll take them some time to catch up with places that were running a test car and have something more mature.

Courtenay probably have one of the best tunes and were one of the first places to tune for a stage 3 with a hybrid turbo?
 
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i did look at their site, and they sell racechip and jb4, etc but i couldnt see any ecu retune packages. i thought they had some though, and i'm pretty sure you're right that they were stuck with the factory turbo limit. I'm not sure that any Aus workshops have confirmed capability to get the most out of stage 2, due to the boost limit, and therefore none will attempt stage 3.

I can ask them in a few weeks when i'm in for service.
 
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I was a bit harsh (and rude) when I said that map was rubbish, but I do think there is quite a bit more work to be done.

As far as I know, Courtenay are the only ones offering Stage 3 as a reality rather than a possibility. Having said that I’ve just been messaged by a friend who has fitted a hybrid turbo to his i20N So it’s certainly possible that others could offer similar.
 
6ixxer said:
looks like the qld guys have some time in the trenches ahead of them to improve their tune. it'll take them some time to catch up with places that were running a test car and have something more mature.

Courtenay probably have one of the best tunes and were one of the first places to tune for a stage 3 with a hybrid turbo?
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I wish Courtenay would appoint a QLD agent so we could get YNWaN's setup on our cars.
 
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wraith666 said:
They partner with Forge for their tuning. Unsure if Forge themselves or if Forge use an external source. Hyundai Tuning despite the name don't technically do any tuning of their own. The other N tunes are done by N75 remotely.
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Correct, they use N75 to tune the ECU, but it's not as simple as you might think. There are a lot of wires to connect and each tune is based on other existing upgraded parts. They will send dyno data to N75, who send back the tune (based on the customers expectations) and then Sean will flash the ECU. Forge are intake and exhaust specialists.
 
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