Tuning i20N Engine & ECU Tuning Discussion

[Cardinalsin]

You confused me with your awareness by talking about engines that don't have CVVD and also the exhaust valves which it doesn't affect as far as I know.

How can you possibly know what gains can be made by controlling the CVVD? It needs the ECU to be accessed to take control and then settings experimented with to find out what, if anything, can be achieved by changing the valve dwell angle.

 

[R Veloster N]

This is already been talked, researched and in the works here in the US. It remains to be seen what either will do with aftermarket upgrades.

2.5T downpipe power and emissions testing today and oh boy does the ECU punch us in the face 6-8 whp gains in the upper revs. With intercooler another 8 whp. With intake, about another 4 whp and it's going to difficult to see substantial gains from either 2.5T or 1.6T. The 1.6T Gamma GDI engine, is still going to be more aftermarket friendly then it's newer brother.

Even with a piggyback tuner and the above elements, it's still behind the power curve compared to previous engine formats. SXTH Element is already on the ball with both engine. There are certainly others who are pursuing the same with both engines.

The 1.6T Smartstream only makes 3 hp over the 1.6T Gamma II. 2.5T make 10 hp over that of the 2.0T Theta II. These are indicators of possible performance gains. However, there's also more emission control on the Smartstream engines to deal with as well. This has to be worked around as well.

This ain't rocket science mate.

 

[Cardinalsin]

This is already been talked, researched and in the works here in the US. It remains to be seen what either will do with aftermarket upgrades.

2.5T downpipe power and emissions testing today and oh boy does the ECU punch us in the face 6-8 whp gains in the upper revs. With intercooler another 8 whp. With intake, about another 4 whp and it's going to difficult to see substantial gains from either 2.5T or 1.6T. The 1.6T Gamma GDI engine, is still going to be more aftermarket friendly then it's newer brother.

Even with a piggyback tuner and the above elements, it's still behind the power curve compared to previous engine formats. SXTH Element is already on the ball with both engine. There are certainly others who are pursuing the same with both engines.

The 1.6T Smartstream only makes 3 hp over the 1.6T Gamma II. 2.5T make 10 hp over that of the 2.0T Theta II. These are indicators of possible performance gains. However, there's also more emission control on the Smartstream engines to deal with as well. This has to be worked around as well.

This ain't rocket science mate.

I appreciate that you have replied but don't want others to be put off by your posts which imply CVVD tuning has already been examined and perhaps dismissed?

That's what i'm looking for and if it has been "already been talked[about], researched and in the works here in the US" then please post what you are talking about.

 

[Kubakko]

I remember 12yrs ago mit evo10 done much improvement when ppl discovered how to work with mivec 8-10% incrase only with mivec changes , so cvvd should be the same , but for this time there is problem to do chip with oem ecu :/

 

[Cardinalsin]

I remember 12yrs ago mit evo10 done much improvement when ppl discovered how to work with mivec 8-10% incrase only with mivec changes , so cvvd should be the same , but for this time there is problem to do chip with oem ecu :/

If it's anything like that it will be worth having.

It's interesting because it's never been an option before. Currently it's being used for power and economy but what has been left on the table to be exploited when the ECU is unlocked and what can that achieve?

 

[Cardinalsin]

I appreciate that you have replied but don't want others to be put off by your posts which imply CVVD tuning has already been examined and perhaps dismissed?

That's what i'm looking for and if it has been "already been talked[about], researched and in the works here in the US" then please post what you are talking about.

Does that mean CVVD hasn't already been "talked, researched and in the works there in the US"?

This is why I started this thread, to try to find some information about CVVD and its potential because there appears to be zippo about it. Apart from that video which has been around for a couple of years.

This could be the ace up our sleeve which sets the 1.6L apart from the 2L?

 

[mrwaite]

Hi all,

I've spent some time looking for any info and now that the new Civic Type R (I was considering upgrading my i20n for one) is coming in at £47,000(!) I've decided I might use some of that difference to make some changes to the little tearaway.

Is there anyone out there who has upgraded their car beyond remaps/chips/tuning boxes, extra aero, wheels, exhausts/intake etc?

I know with certain marques there is a lot of support for forged engine internals, bigger turbos, meth etc. etc.

Is there anyone out there digging this deep into the engine? There are fiestas out there on big bhp numbers (I appreciate the fiesta ST is a lot more common and there is a huge following for fast fords) but has anyone "gone mad" on their i20N?

I would imagine that with no precedent it would be hideously expensive to go to an engine builder and have them be the first to poke around at my car..

 

[YNWaN]

In terms of the aftermarket tuning market I would say it’s as if the i20N were released only last month. Nobody has yet cracked the ECU so when you ask if anyone has gone beyond a remap the reality is that nobody has even done a remap. Also bear in mind that every single i20N ever built is well within its manufacturers warranty.

 

[mrwaite]

I expected as such really. However it doesn't seem to stop many taking their brand new warrantied car for more power (Civic Type R, M cars, Audis, AMGs all seem to do so).

Interesting to know that the ECU remains uncracked, is anyone actively trying to make a name for themselves as the Hyundai N performance guys to go to?

With Ford you had Mountune, Audi/VAG have Revo etc.

Would be nice to see someone fill the niche, particularly as the N brand grows and the cars get older (the i30Ns have been out a while).

 

[R Veloster N]

The Smartstream engine and the i20N hasn’t been on the market long enough for anything to transpire. Might happen in the near to distant future but it’s not going to be soon for this KDM product. It took aftermarket manufactures 3 MY’s to develop internals for the i30N and VN 2.0T Theta II engine. There are very few tuners involved in KDM and those who are are not in a hurry. The main issue is; not many owners want to pour large amounts of money into a 1.6T Hyundai. Hyundai is looked at as step children of the tuning world.

As far as the N-Performance, they’re virtually dead on the ICE side. IMO I’d go as far to say, you won’t see a 2025 brand model. They dropped the VN after four MY’s and it was the flagship for the US N-Performance line in the US. Then and replaced it with an SUV and 4-door. Neither are selling well in the US. This is pretty big sign for anyone wanting to invest in the N-Performance brand.

SEMA one of the largest tuner shows in the world. It was another let down in the KDM tuning world and for N-Performance brand also. Nothing new came out for either the 1.6T and 2.5T Smartstream engines.

Their are a couple of companies involved in the US and they’re currently working on tunes for both, but it’s not going to happen before the first of the year and most likely not to soon after. Those tuners are developing both stage 1, 2 and 3 tunes that will be used in their flash tuners, both EK1 Pro and EK1 Lite. Both of which do not require the ECU to be unlocked. There’s need no for a spare or unlocked ECU. The flash tuners has full up and downloadable access.

I have the EK1 Lite in hand now. It downloads the OEM tune and saves it within the unit. Then you have full access to the ECU thru the flash tuner to change between tunes at will. These tunes can be uploaded to the mini SD card via a secure network through the tuner. They will also be customizable for specific modifications either directly thru the tuner or via custom dynamometer tuning.

They unit is specifically designed for Hyundai automobiles and will directly access their ECU’s without the need to unlock them. So, waiting for a ECU to be hacked and unlocked is no longer necessary.

Will tuners world wide have this capability? Not unless the develop a similar units of their own. This unit was three years in the making and has been tried and tested. Now come the tunes.

 

[R Veloster N]

Their are a couple of companies involved in the US and they’re currently working on tunes for both, but it’s not going to happen before the first of the year and most likely not to soon after. Those tuners are developing both stage 1, 2 and 3 tunes that will be used in their flash tuners, both EK1 Pro and EK1 Lite. Both which, do not require the ECU to be unlocked. There’s need no for a spare or unlocked ECU. The flash tuners does, has full up and downloadable access.

I have the EK1 Lite in hand now. It downloads the OEM tune and saves it within the unit. Then you have full access to the ECU thru the flash tuner to change between tunes at will. These tunes can be uploaded to the mini SD card via a secure network through the tuner. They will also be customizable for specific modifications either directly thru the tuner or via custom dynamometer tuning.

The unit is specifically designed for Hyundai automobiles and will directly access their ECU’s without the need to unlock them. So, waiting for a ECU to be hacked and unlocked is no longer necessary.

Will others tuners world wide have this capability? Not unless the develop a similar units of their own. This unit was three years in the making. It’s has been tried and tested. Now come the tunes.

Patients is a virtue. You're simply not informed, watch it transpire. All the reading in the world regarding the Smart stream CVVD, isn’t going to make anyone more informed. It’s the actual hands on work that does. Leave it to those who have the capability.

 

[Cardinalsin]

Their are a couple of companies involved in the US and they’re currently working on tunes for both, but it’s not going to happen before the first of the year and most likely not to soon after. Those tuners are developing both stage 1, 2 and 3 tunes that will be used in their flash tuners, both EK1 Pro and EK1 Lite. Both which, do not require the ECU to be unlocked. There’s need no for a spare or unlocked ECU. The flash tuners does, has full up and downloadable access.

I have the EK1 Lite in hand now. It downloads the OEM tune and saves it within the unit. Then you have full access to the ECU thru the flash tuner to change between tunes at will. These tunes can be uploaded to the mini SD card via a secure network through the tuner. They will also be customizable for specific modifications either directly thru the tuner or via custom dynamometer tuning.

The unit is specifically designed for Hyundai automobiles and will directly access their ECU’s without the need to unlock them. So, waiting for a ECU to be hacked and unlocked is no longer necessary.

Will others tuners world wide have this capability? Not unless the develop a similar units of their own. This unit was three years in the making. It’s has been tried and tested. Now come the tunes.

Patients is a virtue. You're simply not informed, watch it transpire. All the reading in the world regarding the Smart stream CVVD, isn’t going to make anyone more informed. It’s the actual hands on work that does. Leave it to those who have the capability.

No that's incorrect, you can't download the OEM tune until you have access to it.

I used the exact same process on an ND MX-5 2L and it took them a while to get into the ECU before they could start to develop various stages of tune and market their product. This is no different, just another flash tuner which will have it's place once they can gain entry to the ECU program.

Flash tuners offer value for money and convenience compared with custom tunes on a dyno which companies like Ecutek prefer but can't match the gains unless you use logs and pay for a custom tune. You need to be careful using them too because if you brick the ECU it will be expensive.

The one that I used was from Open Flash and they were great until they moved on to other vehicles when they stopped supporting previous customers and left them to deal with the problems from that point. Mine messed up and gave me some grief when I sold the car.

 

[R Veloster N]

Yes you can and I can assure you, I’ve already done so. This tuner has the capability to access the OEM ECU directly. The VIN is register in the EK1. You don’t understand this tuners capability.

Did the same with a COBB flash tuner and it’s been on the market since before 2015. Was done with a Fiesta ST; A specific tunes was either included or downloaded to the tuner. Tuner is plugged into the OBD II port and upload the OEM tune to the tuner, then download whatever I chose specifically available for the FIST. Could hold up to 5 tunes. Never did have to unlock the OEM tuner.

We aren’t talking about older technology here.

I’ll say this once more for posterity; the EK1 PRO and EK1 lite tuners access the OEM ECU without the need to unlock it, then uploads the OEM tune to the tuner. Once this process is completed, any tune developed for a specific engine by the tuner, can be downloaded to the flash tuners mini SDS via a secure net the tuner provides. Download the tune to the unit and uploaded to the OEM ECU, without the need to unlock it.

You're trying to argue a point you don’t understand or have experience with this specific tuner.

 

[Cardinalsin]

The tuner still has to access the ECU in the first place to be able to write the software which will download a copy of the ECU program to the tablet. They haven't been able to do that with the i20N G4F hence piggy backs being the only option currently.

Until you can show something to the contrary i'll stick with my scepticism.

 

[Cardinalsin]

I've been in touch with SXTH Element Eng and they have physically cut open an ECU from an i20N and can now write the boot mode. They are currently working on the OBDII and hope to be able to release their product mid to late 2023.

 

[Cardinalsin]

I see where your confusion has come from now about unlocking the ECU. It's the tuner that has to get access and unlock the ECU to then be able to supply the program for their customers to get easy access.

In the case of the company you mention they had to cut open an i20N ECU to be able to work out how to write to it via boot mode and then use the OBDII port.

Of course that doesn't apply to their customers but they did have to unlock the ECU themselves, the same as usual.

 

[R Veloster N]

Nope, you don’t understand the units capability. To upload the OEM software from the unit has to have full access, full stop. The access comes from the flan unit.

The OEM ECU isn’t unlocked and there are specific steps to register the VIN and upload the OEM tune into the unit.

Just like it’s been with the COBB unit since 2015 for the Ford products they support for their unit. The tuner who supplies this unit, doesn’t use an unlocked ECU, nor has to provide one, or needs one.

I’m talking about the 2.0T Theta II engine and other similar GDI formats. Don’t want a 1.6T Smart-stream or need one.

These are the vehicles the unit will access directly without unlocking the OEM ECU;

READ-WRITE-LOG-DRIVE!

Three separate tuners are able to utilize and provide tunes for the EK1 Pro and Lite. this will give you some idea as to how many manufactures they support directly;

EK1Tuning

EK1 Device supports ECU remap service via Handheld or portable device. Especially EK1 solution is designed Hyundai/Kia/SSangyong as Korean manufacturer. Enjoy online tuning with EK1 devices

nklabtuning.com

Tuning specs | NKLAB Automotive

Tuning specs

nklabtuning.com

 

[R Veloster N]

That's funny mate, because Hyundai doesn’t import i20N in the USA, so they do not have an i20N ECU. SXTH Element does not, will not develop anything for the Hyundai i20N. They're a US company only, do not import, nor have a license to do so. They can't tune one, as there's not one available to get one on the dyno.

I know them quite well, so who did you speak to?

Tuning specs | NKLAB Automotive

Tuning specs

nklabtuning.com

 

[Cardinalsin]

You still don't get it do you?

The ECU doesn't have to be unlocked for each application of the tune but it had to be unlocked by the tuning company initially to be able to offer that service.

As you "Don’t want a 1.6T Smart-stream or need one" why are you wasting your valuable time here?

 

[Cardinalsin]

That's funny mate because don't have the i20N in the USA, so they do not have an i20N ECU. SXTH Element does not or will supply or offer anything for the Hyundai i20N, as they're a US company only and do not import. They can't tune one, as there's not one available to get one on the dyno.

I know them quite well, so who did you speak to?

Tuning specs | NKLAB Automotive

Tuning specs

nklabtuning.com

You really are being childish. See below.

Which vehicle and ECU?

------------
SXTH Element Support Team
www.sxthelement.com

My reply. "Hyundai i20N in Australia. I'm not sure which ECU it has but it's the 1.6T with the new CVVD[variable dwell] valve train."

We are working on this ECU for a mid to late 2023 release.

------------
SXTH Element Support Team
www.sxthelement.com

It went on from there and he was good enough to let me know what they have done and where they are at. Including current dyno figures and that they haven't been able to get rid of the rev hang which is peculiar to the i20N I believe.