i20n Race Car / Some Heat Managment Problems

[orcunince]

Hello everyone,

I’m new to the forum, but I can actually say I’ve been around the N community for quite a while

About a year ago I decided to enter my daily-driven i20N into races so I could compete in Turkey’s national circuit championship. We’ve been racing with it since April and have finished P1 in all six races so far.

Our competitors this year in the 1600 cc category of the Turkish Circuit Championship are: Mini GP2, Opel Corsa OPC, and Polo GTI.

Thanks to our pace we’ve had the chance to back off and cool things down, but we’re having problems with coolant temperature. In ambient temperatures of 27 °C and above, we can’t race without turning on the heater; above 32 °C even that isn’t enough and we’re forced to lift off and cool the car. The car has neither air conditioning nor a (standard) radiator, which makes temperature management even more challenging.

The championship rules don’t allow us to use a larger water radiator. The only thing we’re permitted to add is an oil cooler — which we already have installed (Airtec).

I’d love to know if anyone has experienced and solved a similar problem before.

Best,

 

[YNWaN]

Can you explain what you mean by the car not having a ‘standard’ radiator please?

 

[goobyN]

Awesome driving and racing, that was fun to watch. I had no idea the car could be pushed like that (this might be crazier than fullsend nurbo laps I've seen for the i20n).

Sorry I can't help with the question, but are you able to share any insight on the car setup?

 

[FlamingHedgehog]

Great build OrcunInce, I have little experience with modifying this platform and have not raced cars for decades, but have watched all your vids with interest. Without knowing the restrictions on mods for your racing class, my only suggestions (guesses really) would be that if you can't add cooling capability like Airtecs radiator addon:
https://www.airtecmotorsport.com/product/airtec-motorsport-turbo-radiator-for-hyundai-i20n/ then maybe run a richer air fuel ratio via software.
My own experience with this car shows that as soon as the ambient air temperature hits 37C the engine drops temps by 10+ degrees so maybe spoofing the exterior temp sensor might help? Or an on demand water spray system for radiator/intercooler if legal (doubtful).
Also Hyundai have fitted this vehicle with a "thermal management module" which I gather is a fancy term for ECU controlled thermostat. Interestingly there is also a thermostat housing - but with no thermostat in it.
https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/gen...AABdpb5P$&vid=&cid=34479053&uid=1652234843&q=
This might be worth looking at depending on how well your team understand the ECU and how restrictive the module is. I have been unable to find much info about it unfortunately.
But I am just spitballing and I expect your team are already aware of all of the above. Wishing you the best of luck anyway, and it looks like you are extremely competitive anyway even without improvements!

 

[6ixxer]

I've seen kits for front oil cooler and an underbody turbo cooler (not sure if oil or water).
What are the limits for size of radiator(s) and oil coolers and are you at the max?
Do you have bonnet vents and exhaust shielding?

 

[Falk21]

I have the same problem with my i20n tracktool.
It seems, I swapped the oil-temperature problem with the coolant-problem.
In my case, the HEL- oilcooler works very well, but it covers a part of the cooler.
As I drive only trackdays, I can have a break, whenever I want.
But above 25 degrees, the turns become shorter and shorter.

So, I work on the same problem…

 

[orcunince]

Can you explain what you mean by the car not having a ‘standard’ radiator please?

Hello, we can’t use a larger cooling radiator for the water.
The car’s air conditioning system and its radiator have been removed.

 

[orcunince]

Awesome driving and racing, that was fun to watch. I had no idea the car could be pushed like that (this might be crazier than fullsend nurbo laps I've seen for the i20n).

Sorry I can't help with the question, but are you able to share any insight on the car setup?

Hi mate,
Thank you for your interest. The races are held at the Istanbul Park circuit, and there are 2 races on the same day each race weekend, which means roughly 150–200 kilometers of full-send driving per day.

The car has KW V3 coilovers, an Airtec oil cooler, a full cage, a CAE shifter, steel fuel lines, and a custom carbon air-filter kit. Regulations do not allow us to do more mechanically. At the moment it’s around 230 horsepower, with 1.3 bar peak boost pressure and we’re hitting the limiter at around 1.0.

Other than the water temperature issue, I haven’t experienced any problems. I’ll explain this issue in more detail shortly.

Great build OrcunInce, I have little experience with modifying this platform and have not raced cars for decades, but have watched all your vids with interest. Without knowing the restrictions on mods for your racing class, my only suggestions (guesses really) would be that if you can't add cooling capability like Airtecs radiator addon:
https://www.airtecmotorsport.com/product/airtec-motorsport-turbo-radiator-for-hyundai-i20n/ then maybe run a richer air fuel ratio via software.
My own experience with this car shows that as soon as the ambient air temperature hits 37C the engine drops temps by 10+ degrees so maybe spoofing the exterior temp sensor might help? Or an on demand water spray system for radiator/intercooler if legal (doubtful).
Also Hyundai have fitted this vehicle with a "thermal management module" which I gather is a fancy term for ECU controlled thermostat. Interestingly there is also a thermostat housing - but with no thermostat in it.
https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/genuine/unit?c=HYUNDAI&ssd=$*KwGGq4qTwNDA5dXZwebfo6Tpy_zSwuOA05mbv8-X0ZGOl_f-z8_dx5eIkfqXz864jZbA44DQwM3yy8-Q3Y6XgIaGgIfx3NLdycvk1tzjgNOZm7_Pl9GRjpfm8biwr_f6gIGWmZDVz9nd_Ozn_fD0-5LBwYyWj5DylsjM762oieKYgN_ghP74rMKB6-ryhYyHg86yk4zA9f32-cvtwJ6Vv4yDh4GB5IKA3dOB3djV5sbZ5IKtgJ7Amuby4ebi86LRzZuHh4GBgPOB3AAAAABdpb5P$&vid=&cid=34479053&uid=1652234843&q=
This might be worth looking at depending on how well your team understand the ECU and how restrictive the module is. I have been unable to find much info about it unfortunately.
But I am just spitballing and I expect your team are already aware of all of the above. Wishing you the best of luck anyway, and it looks like you are extremely competitive anyway even without improvements!

Thank you for the information.

We’ve richened the AFR a bit; we’re running around 12 at the moment.

When the ambient temperature is 25 °C we don’t have any problems, at 30 °C we can manage if we race with the heater on (we routed the heater pipes out under the doors ), but at 35 °C unfortunately we have to slow down on the back straight to cool the car. You can see the temperatures in the videos anyway.

We haven’t managed to adjust the thermostat setting yet, but we’ll keep trying.

 

[orcunince]

I've seen kits for front oil cooler and an underbody turbo cooler (not sure if oil or water).
What are the limits for size of radiator(s) and oil coolers and are you at the max?
Do you have bonnet vents and exhaust shielding?

We have an Airtec oil cooler and it’s really working. We haven’t been able to find a larger water radiator made for this car — even if we did, it’s banned under the rules anyway

Our exhaust also has heat insulation.

We tried Airtec turbo radiator, it didn't change anything.

Bonnet vent are also restricted.

I have the same problem with my i20n tracktool.
It seems, I swapped the oil-temperature problem with the coolant-problem.
In my case, the HEL- oilcooler works very well, but it covers a part of the cooler.
As I drive only trackdays, I can have a break, whenever I want.
But above 25 degrees, the turns become shorter and shorter.

So, I work on the same problem…

Same here

We solved our oil temperature issue with an oil cooler as well, but we haven’t solved the water temperature problem yet. As you said, the oil cooler blocks the front of the radiator. We’re thinking about cutting holes in the bumper and the crash bar behind it to get more air to the radiator we’ll probably give it a try.

 

[YNWaN]

Hello, we can’t use a larger cooling radiator for the water.
The car’s air conditioning system and its radiator have been removed.

Ah, I see now what you mean - you can’t use the air conditioning as a secondary cooling system.

Well if all cooling must be left standard there isn’t a huge amount you can do - perhaps increase the airflow over the existing components - reposition the intercooler so it isn’t blocking the radiator perhaps?

 

[FlamingHedgehog]

Ah, I see now what you mean - you can’t use the air conditioning as a secondary cooling system.

Well if all cooling must be left standard there isn’t a huge amount you can do - perhaps increase the airflow over the existing components - reposition the intercooler so it isn’t blocking the radiator perhaps?

This is a good idea depending on what front spoiler mods are permitted. If you can lower the front air dam to scoop more air through the radiator/intercooler it might be worthwhile. I have only seen flat/horizontal front spoiler lips for the i20n though which would make little difference. A downward angled lip might "catch" more air in theory while also reducing the volume of airflow under the vehicle. Of course it might also make things worse. I think its really trial and error which can get expensive unfortunately. But thats racing...

 

[Jerome92]

Awesome vid and nice build! It's nice that with relatively few modifications the car can handle the track very well! What do you run in terms of brakes?

As for your question, you can't use a larger radiator, but what about an additive such as water wetter? (Careful that the manual says not to use alcool-based additives, not sure what water wetter is composed of). You could also try to use (almost) only distilled water which will increase a bit the thermal capacity of the system. I would also try to move the oil cooler for better airflow to the water radiator. Since the two share the same thermal load a bigger oil cooler may help too, "machined performance" on Instagram is a small company which makes custom bits for the i20N, included an oil cooler

 

[orcunince]

Ah, I see now what you mean - you can’t use the air conditioning as a secondary cooling system.

Well if all cooling must be left standard there isn’t a huge amount you can do - perhaps increase the airflow over the existing components - reposition the intercooler so it isn’t blocking the radiator perhaps?

Actually, only the air conditioning system and the main radiator have been removed; the heater and its radiator are still in the car. As you can see in the videos, I always race with it fully on, and we simply extended the hoses that go to the footwell and routed them outside the car Relocating the oil cooler could be a solution too, but it would need to be moved to a spot where it won’t get damaged during the race.

This is a good idea depending on what front spoiler mods are permitted. If you can lower the front air dam to scoop more air through the radiator/intercooler it might be worthwhile. I have only seen flat/horizontal front spoiler lips for the i20n though which would make little difference. A downward angled lip might "catch" more air in theory while also reducing the volume of airflow under the vehicle. Of course it might also make things worse. I think its really trial and error which can get expensive unfortunately. But thats racing...

In this series any kind of aerodynamic modification is allowed, so we can build whatever splitter we want up front. The next races are in November this year, so we have time for upgrades, but it’s a bad season for testing since the air temperature will probably be around 10 °C — and we’ll be flying

Awesome vid and nice build! It's nice that with relatively few modifications the car can handle the track very well! What do you run in terms of brakes?

As for your question, you can't use a larger radiator, but what about an additive such as water wetter? (Careful that the manual says not to use alcool-based additives, not sure what water wetter is composed of). You could also try to use (almost) only distilled water which will increase a bit the thermal capacity of the system. I would also try to move the oil cooler for better airflow to the water radiator. Since the two share the same thermal load a bigger oil cooler may help too, "machined performance" on Instagram is a small company which makes custom bits for the i20N, included an oil cooler

Braking is the area where we’re far behind our competitors. The Corsa OPCs run 4-piston Brembos, the Mini runs 6-piston calipers, and we’re on just a single piston By the rules we can’t change the calipers, and the discs also have to be non-vented We’ve tried RSL29, Endless, and Tarox, all of them were terrible by the fourth lap… The best pads have been EBC RPX; we’ve run the last two races with them and, for a single-piston setup, I’m very satisfied.

I tried MoCool and it had almost no effect. I haven’t tried pure water yet, I definitely need to give that a go We were worried that a larger oil cooler might reduce oil pressure, but we definitely need to try that too, you’re right.

 

[gpaaa]

Actually, only the air conditioning system and the main radiator have been removed; the heater and its radiator are still in the car. As you can see in the videos, I always race with it fully on, and we simply extended the hoses that go to the footwell and routed them outside the car Relocating the oil cooler could be a solution too, but it would need to be moved to a spot where it won’t get damaged during the race.

In this series any kind of aerodynamic modification is allowed, so we can build whatever splitter we want up front. The next races are in November this year, so we have time for upgrades, but it’s a bad season for testing since the air temperature will probably be around 10 °C — and we’ll be flying




Braking is the area where we’re far behind our competitors. The Corsa OPCs run 4-piston Brembos, the Mini runs 6-piston calipers, and we’re on just a single piston By the rules we can’t change the calipers, and the discs also have to be non-vented We’ve tried RSL29, Endless, and Tarox, all of them were terrible by the fourth lap… The best pads have been EBC RPX; we’ve run the last two races with them and, for a single-piston setup, I’m very satisfied.

I tried MoCool and it had almost no effect. I haven’t tried pure water yet, I definitely need to give that a go We were worried that a larger oil cooler might reduce oil pressure, but we definitely need to try that too, you’re right.

check the firtech r60.

 

[YNWaN]

I’m pretty certain that the Corsa was never sold with four piston calipers, nor any Mini sold with six piston ones. If your competitors are running these setups then they are aftermarket brakes.

 

[FlamingHedgehog]

I’m pretty certain that the Corsa was never sold with four piston calipers, nor any Mini sold with six piston ones. If your competitors are running these setups then they are aftermarket brakes.

The Corsa D VXR Nurburgring edition had 4 pot Brembos I believe.

 

[FlamingHedgehog]

By the rules we can’t change the calipers, and the discs also have to be non-vented We’ve tried RSL29, Endless, and Tarox, all of them were terrible by the fourth lap… The best pads have been EBC RPX; we’ve run the last two races with them and, for a single-piston setup, I’m very satisfied.

When you say the discs have to be non-vented, do you mean you cant run the original front vented discs?

As far as pads go you are in uncharted territory as you are the first that I know of to run this vehicle in national competition. I found the attached table from EBC which you may or may not have seen before.

 

[Jerome92]

I guess he means no additional brake cooling, which is a big issue for this car. I'm surprised by the comment on Endless pads, they have race (ME20/22), endurance (MA45B) and sprint (N39S) pads rated up to 800deg. That said, I've only heard good comments about the EBC RP-X

 

[FlamingHedgehog]

I guess he means no additional brake cooling, which is a big issue for this car

Yeah, that makes sense

 

[FlamingHedgehog]

We’re thinking about cutting holes in the bumper and the crash bar behind it to get more air to the radiator we’ll probably give it a try.

I think this is your best bet for little money. The stock grill is quite obstructive and if you could do away with it altogether it might be beneficial (wire mesh grill?). Even the "facelift" grill seems to have plenty of blocked off areas. I have not had the front bumper off my car but maybe a shroud between grill and radiator to help channel/force air through the radiator rather than vent around it.
Judging by your latest videos you are absolutely killing it in your class anyway