Engine Do we know the limits of the stock block/internals?

[Esoterikk]

I know there's a lack of big power options and being so new I doubt anyone is slapping big turbos on the N yet but I'm curious if we have an idea of the strength of the stock engine?

Being an aluminum block with an open deck design it seems like it shouldn't be able to handle increased power well but I could be wrong.

 

[R Veloster N]

It will with caution. It will even handle a bigger turbo but not missed shifts or shifts by accident to a lower gear under WOT.

Boost is the issue here. Going beyond 31 psi is not a good idea with the OEM internals. There's plenty of information throughout the forum to answer your questions. Be sure to utilize the search engine at the top of the page, to avoid any duplications in on-going threads. The forum staff, will quietly thank you!

Stay away from the DCT, if you're planning to modify the VN beyond it's design parameters. I don't believe the DCT is robust enough to handle most of them.

Make sure you take the time to introduce yourself to the members and please familiarize yourself with the Forum Rules;

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[NULLOBANDITO]

In one of JP Performance's new videos he was at the Hyundai Motorsport center in Germany, talking with one of the chief designers.

They also went over to some TCR engines and it was stated that it's the stock block with a few bolt-ons. It supposedly can take up to 420hp and last ~25k km race-pace with a sequential gearbox. So you can expect quite a bit of reliability of those stock engines if you "only" go to 380hp and don't race it too much.

 

[Esoterikk]

In one of JP Performance's new videos he was at the Hyundai Motorsport center in Germany, talking with one of the chief designers.

They also went over to some TCR engines and it was stated that it's the stock block with a few bolt-ons. It supposedly can take up to 420hp and last ~25k km race-pace with a sequential gearbox. So you can expect quite a bit of reliability of those stock engines if you "only" go to 380hp and don't race it too much.

Was that wheel or crank?

 

[R Veloster N]

Hp is, crank rated hp or generally referred to as bhp. Whp is, wheel horsepower. All TCR's are rated at crank horsepower.

 

[Esoterikk]

Hmm, 380 crank seems a bit low I was hoping it was a bit higher for reliability. 380 crank won't take much to get too unless the engine doesn't respond to mods well. A slightly bigger turbo would be breaking that barrier easily I'd wager although I mostly tune Subaru's so my knowledge of the Theta II-i is limited.

 

[R Veloster N]

Follow what the TCR's output is and you'll stay out of trouble. Beyond that, it's internals.

In one of JP Performance's new videos he was at the Hyundai Motorsport center in Germany, talking with one of the chief designers.

"it supposedly can take up to 420hp and last ~25k km race-pace with a sequential gearbox."

 

[NULLOBANDITO]

There's inserts to make the block semi-closed top and also forged internals. Without fully building the engine you probably won't be able to go over 400hp for long.

 

[Esoterikk]

So what's the 2.0 tipping in at with a tune + FBO roughly?

 

[R Veloster N]

FBO, (Full Bolt Ons) for others that are unaware; 300+ whp roughly depending upon the tune and finite bolt on parts utilized. It's all in what is utilized, as not all bolt ons are the same.

 

[Wildsev]

Open Deck vs Closed Deck | Engine Fundamentals

looks like a lot of modern performance engines are also open deck

but those big boys like the GTR, and 2JZ are closed deck

 

[R Veloster N]

It's quite simple; cost. An open deck is cheaper and easier to produce. I posted some information on closed deck vs open deck engine short blocks quite a while ago.

If your going to boost well beyond 21 psi, there is an option for closed decking an open deck block. There is a company that has been doing so for quite some time. This video will give you a good demonstration and explaination.

 

[digitalpeer]

i have 2 cars over 600whp and my stock i30n, i honestly would think the i30n would be in a hp sweet spot around 300whp, much more and i reckon you would find it less enjoyable to drive as a package. In my experience fwds are the most fun around 200 to 300 whp depending on weight class.
would love to see someone squeeze some big numbers outa one though.

 

[R Veloster N]

There has been one 2.0T Theta II engine produce over 400 whp but the internals were upgraded. No head work or cams. Right now the biggest numbers I can recall for a stock block are 360+ whp with a proper tune, larger hybrid turbo and complete bolt ons. It's still together and running well, as far as I am aware.

I think to squeeze much more will require a teardown, close deck block and upgraded the internals. Still haven't seen any head work or cams being done to the stock VN or i30N engine but it's coming. . Generally speaking, there's another 15-20 whp which can be added on with headwork and cams, maybe a little more to the + side.

The VN IMSA car has 350+ hp with OEM stock internals and a higher HPFP, LPFP and bigger turbo. So anything's possible, with the effort and time.

 

[Bu11eT]

Got some Infos from a few German tuners about engine failures on tuned i30Ns (so in theory it should apply to the VN as well). It seems HP are one thing, but torque is the other. Cars with over 500Nm (~370 ftlbs) at the crank seem to easily bend/break rods. Obviously it highly depends on your driving style, but if you are planning to make it bulletproof, keep that in mind.

 

[R Veloster N]

True but optimal power is always the goal. Not maximum whp or torque. Cranks are forged but the rod’s aren’t from the factory.

So, rods are alway a weak point with OEM engine, with exception to AMG hand built engines and Porsche engines along with much more expensive makes of a

Tuning always needs to be tempered with the internals that are used inside and also with longevity in mind.

With that in mind, have a great and wonderful CHRISTMAS everyone!!!!!!!!!

 

[Xerxes]

Got some Infos from a few German tuners about engine failures on tuned i30Ns (so in theory it should apply to the VN as well). It seems HP are one thing, but torque is the other. Cars with over 500Nm (~370 ftlbs) at the crank seem to easily bend/break rods. Obviously it highly depends on your driving style, but if you are planning to make it bulletproof, keep that in mind.

Torque is really the most important part in determine the reliability of an engine because horsepower is simply a function of torque. For background, torque is a rotational force at a given moment. Power is simply torque multiplied by an angular velocity.

Because torque is a twisting force, and power is a derivative of this twisting force over time, you can see that the twisting force is what is most important to look for when assessing the potential for damage.

When I write calibrations for vehicles, especially those with small turbos, we are looking to apply the torque in a smooth manner, so as not too exert to flash a large amount of stress onto a component in a very short period of time, and to maintain the torque within the reasonable limits of the turbocharger. Most engines will fail at their point of highest torque, not horsepower (unless the failure is related to time).

500 Nm of torque is fun, but it fades extremely quickly. Given the extra stress, this is not worth the cost.

Our upgraded stock frame turbo allows torque to come on smoothly because of the size of the exhaust turbine. The OEM turbocharger can produce excessive torque that leads to all sorts of problems.

 

[TMC_Gaming]

It will with caution. It will even handle a bigger turbo but not missed shifts or shifts by accident to a lower gear under WOT.

Boost is the issue here. Going beyond 21 psi is not a good idea with the OEM internals. There's plenty of information throughout the forum to answer your questions. Be sure to utilize the search engine at the top of the page, to avoid any duplications in on-going threads. The forum staff, will quietly thank you!

Stay away from the DCT, if you're planning to modify the VN beyond it's design parameters. I don't believe the DCT is robust enough to handle most of them.

Make sure you take the time to introduce yourself to the members and please familiarize yourself with the Forum Rules;

Introductions!

New to the site? Please say hello here!

n-cars.net

Forum Rules

1. All information and instructions given within these forums is to be used at your own risk. By following or using any of this information you give up the right to hold N-cars.net liable for any damage caused to you or your vehicle. 2. There is a pretty good chance that, unless you have some...

n-cars.net

The DCT holds power fine even nearly maxed on 93 octane doesn't start slipping the clutch until you hit 330wtq and even then it's first gear only.

 

[newbtostandard]

The DCT holds power fine even nearly maxed on 93 octane doesn't start slipping the clutch until you hit 330wtq and even then it's first gear only.

Damn the DCT slips with that little torque lol. I have heard the stock clutch for the shifty bois is like 360wtq or so. Maybe a bit more but it'll drastically reduce material life. I figured the DCT would be even more robust that the manual.

 

[R Veloster N]

DCT is capped at around 457 NM maximum torque or 337 ft lbs of torque. Won't allow anymore either, via specific torque limiters in the TCU.