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Wheels Stock Wheels to Camber Bolts to Konig Ampliform 18x8.5 +45

#25
Nice post, and great info! Few things I'd like to mention from my experience with camber bolts and wider tires (same contact patch as yours).

I'm currently running the stock 19" wheels with a 245/35R19 Continental ContiSportContact 6 (same tires that a stock Civic Type R uses, got them for free to test so why not lol). I have H&R lowering springs (1.5"/35mm drop) and am running 2 sets of Whiteline KCA414 camber bolts on the front (one in both holes for the front struts), stock adjustments on the rear. I am currently dialed in with -2.8° camber (yes you can run that much with just bolts, up to -3.5° actually) on the front with stock toe settings, and -2.5° in the rear again with stock toe settings.

From my latest track day a week ago, I can tell you that i need a decent amount more front camber. My tires wore unevenly feathered on all tread blocks and there was very visible evidence of rolling over onto the sidewalls, despite what changes I made to tire pressures.

I would estimate approximately 3.1-3.4° will be required in the front for these specific tires, of course the required camber changes with each individual tire model/size, but considering there's even less sidewall flex on my 19s compared to your 18s since theres much less sidewall to begin with, I'd say you will be in the same boat as me.

As for the rears, -2.5° seemed to be perfect as the tire wore right to the edge of the tread on the outside, but not past it. There was no visible evidence of the tires rolling over onto the sidewall in the rear with my current setup.

Problem is, I've found that past -3° of camber you start getting noticable camber wear on your tires generally. I'm willing to make that sacrifice since I have the means to rotate/swap tires whenever I want myself at work but its not for the average joe who doesn't/rarely visits the track and isn't searching for every possible tenth of a second to save on lap times.

Please let us know how your setup performs on the track, and what your tire wear looks like afterwards. RS4s are a fantastic tire, very interested to see the results!
 
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#26
I'm currently running the stock 19" wheels with a 245/35R19 Continental ContiSportContact 6 (same tires that a stock Civic Type R uses, got them for free to test so why not lol). I have H&R lowering springs (1.5"/35mm drop) and am running 2 sets of Whiteline KCA414 camber bolts on the front (one in both holes for the front struts), stock adjustments on the rear. I am currently dialed in with -2.8° camber (yes you can run that much with just bolts, up to -3.5° actually) on the front with stock toe settings, and -2.5° in the rear again with stock toe settings.
I am jealous of your front camber. Interesting that two camber bolts work. My setup puts the wheel 3.7mm further away from the suspension than your stock wheels. So that must mean it would work for me. I am a little concerned about two camber bolts though because they are not as strong as the stock bolts, so now you have two weaker bolts. Ideally, I would have one camber bolt and camber plates to dial in more camber and more caster to get better camber gain on turn in. I could also adjust the camber plates for track and street use.

One of my AX friends was a former Pro Road Racer all in front wheel drive cars. He said to me you need more front camber especially for a car with struts in the front. Given my current limitation at -1.9 front, he suggested I try dialing the rear back to -1.0 and try 1/8 toe out front and rear to eliminate push. I asked him about adding a stiffer rear bar and he said to try the alignment first to see how that works. He said a stiffer rear bar will only help with initial turn in. Once you have a wheel lifted then a stiffer bar will not help you turn in better and mid corner to exit will be worse. He has always been pro stiffer springs and less bar. But I am not changing the stock dampers because the electronic control makes for a perfect daily driver.

For uneven tire wear on the street with an aggressive alignment - I have 10 mins back road daily each way which I drive quite hard. Then the occasional canyon road. Still uneven wear? - Take car to a AX practice day or run the first track session on them :). I am also thinking of running the RS4 as a daily setup. Then buy two wheels to take to the track. The fronts always get the freshest rubber.

Do you feel any negatives in handling with the H&R springs? My concern with lowering is loss of suspension travel and less front camber gain on compression.
 
#27
Upper and lower bolts is common. The camber bolts themselves are actually harder, stronger than the lower hardness oem bolt. My only issue with camber bolt use has been movement. Since there is less surface area friction, even in a tension application, they have the propensity to move. I cant count how mant times Ive had to set and re tq them after a session. Normally I replace them after one season. In my RWD car -3 camber was (305 sec width) optimal. IMO based on experience, -3 degrees front camber in a FWD car in OEM geometry will hamper acceleration and braking performance (less contact patch). The only way to counter loss of contact patch is wider wheel and tire or modify geometry. So the challenge for the Ns and all FWD cars, IMO, is driving of the car. You have to find a balance of setup and driving within the limitations.
Hence why RWD cars are the platform of most sports cars.

QUOTE="Curves, post: 59849, member: 2890"]I am jealous of your front camber. Interesting that two camber bolts work. My setup puts the wheel 3.7mm further away from the suspension than your stock wheels. So that must mean it would work for me. I am a little concerned about two camber bolts though because they are not as strong as the stock bolts, so now you have two weaker bolts. Ideally, I would have one camber bolt and camber plates to dial in more camber and more caster to get better camber gain on turn in. I could also adjust the camber plates for track and street use.

One of my AX friends was a former Pro Road Racer all in front wheel drive cars. He said to me you need more front camber especially for a car with struts in the front. Given my current limitation at -1.9 front, he suggested I try dialing the rear back to -1.0 and try 1/8 toe out front and rear to eliminate push. I asked him about adding a stiffer rear bar and he said to try the alignment first to see how that works. He said a stiffer rear bar will only help with initial turn in. Once you have a wheel lifted then a stiffer bar will not help you turn in better and mid corner to exit will be worse. He has always been pro stiffer springs and less bar. But I am not changing the stock dampers because the electronic control makes for a perfect daily driver.

For uneven tire wear on the street with an aggressive alignment - I have 10 mins back road daily each way which I drive quite hard. Then the occasional canyon road. Still uneven wear? - Take car to a AX practice day or run the first track session on them :). I am also thinking of running the RS4 as a daily setup. Then buy two wheels to take to the track. The fronts always get the freshest rubber.

Do you feel any negatives in handling with the H&R springs? My concern with lowering is loss of suspension travel and less front camber gain on compression.[/QUOTE
 
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#29
Ideally, I would have one camber bolt and camber plates to dial in more camber and more caster to get better camber gain on turn in. I could also adjust the camber plates for track and street use.
Absolutely, I would much rather rely on camber plates than 2 sets of bolts. I was trying to get some camber plates made for our cars but my fabricator friend didn't seem all that enthusiastic about it despite my constant nagging about how much money he'd make with them :rolleyes:. For now, the 2 bolts are the only solution besides going with a full coilover upgrade. I've ran them on 4 intensive lapping days so far with zero issues though, along with about 12k km-worth of daily driving.

One of my AX friends was a former Pro Road Racer all in front wheel drive cars. He said to me you need more front camber especially for a car with struts in the front. Given my current limitation at -1.9 front, he suggested I try dialing the rear back to -1.0 and try 1/8 toe out front and rear to eliminate push. I asked him about adding a stiffer rear bar and he said to try the alignment first to see how that works. He said a stiffer rear bar will only help with initial turn in. Once you have a wheel lifted then a stiffer bar will not help you turn in better and mid corner to exit will be worse. He has always been pro stiffer springs and less bar. But I am not changing the stock dampers because the electronic control makes for a perfect daily driver.
Any car with a macpherson strut setup in the front will require a ton of camber as it does not gain dynamic camber at all. I would definitely much sooner throw in a second set of bolts than add more toe which will drastically affect your tire wear in a bad way.

For uneven tire wear on the street with an aggressive alignment - I have 10 mins back road daily each way which I drive quite hard. Then the occasional canyon road. Still uneven wear? - Take car to a AX practice day or run the first track session on them :). I am also thinking of running the RS4 as a daily setup. Then buy two wheels to take to the track. The fronts always get the freshest rubber.
Not sure if you live in the snow belt or not, but if you do and you have a separate set of winter tires, I'm sure the tires will still last you at least 2 to 3 seasons for daily driving with some occasional track use. The RS4s don't wear all that quickly considering the grip level they offer which is great. Just make sure to monitor your tire wear, front to back, and inside to outside, and rotate/remount them as necessary to squeeze as much life out of them as possible.

Do you feel any negatives in handling with the H&R springs? My concern with lowering is loss of suspension travel and less front camber gain on compression.
Not really, they feel a bit stiffer than stock overall, but I haven't noticed my suspension bottoming out on the track at all, it does on the street occasionally when I hit a massive bump.pothole but all suspension does that :)
 

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