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Road & Track: GTI vs. Type R vs. Veloster N

1FastStagea

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2018
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Canada
Saw this in the latest issue of R&T today. Strange bunch of cars to include in a comparison if you ask me, but they sang the praises of the Veloster N (although not as much as the Type R in terms of performance which is to be expected). Crazy to think the VN PP is still cheaper than a GTI too.

VN vs Type R vs GTI.jpg
 

PLT_Triks

Member
Jan 23, 2019
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34
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Calgary
It bugs me that people keep comparing the N to the Type R/STi/Golf R etc. Like its a fair comparison when its not.

All those cars are thousands more expensive than the N. In my area the Type R is $8k CAD more expensive, the Golf R & STi $15k CAD more.

And inevitably when the N loses in those unfair comparisons, the Hyundai-haters all are very quick to comment on how Hyundai or the N sucks with zero awareness on price points.

This is coming from a guy who also owns a new Audi S3. The N is an amazing car for the money, even more so than the Type R... And that's where I think most of these reviews fail - the failure to emphasize the actual price point the N competes in.


Ok. Rant over.
 

GazmaN

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 28, 2018
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Darwin, Australia
It bugs me that people keep comparing the N to the Type R/STi/Golf R etc. Like its a fair comparison when its not.

All those cars are thousands more expensive than the N. In my area the Type R is $8k CAD more expensive, the Golf R & STi $15k CAD more.

And inevitably when the N loses in those unfair comparisons, the Hyundai-haters all are very quick to comment on how Hyundai or the N sucks with zero awareness on price points.

This is coming from a guy who also owns a new Audi S3. The N is an amazing car for the money, even more so than the Type R... And that's where I think most of these reviews fail - the failure to emphasize the actual price point the N competes in.


Ok. Rant over.
YES. I salute you, sir!
 

WookieeM

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2018
335
539
93
West Yorkshire
I take it as a compliment that my ‘cheap’ Korean car is compared to ‘greatness’. (Yeah it’s not that cheap!)

Yes ‘normal’ people don’t have a clue what it is and how capable it is.
Doesn’t matter, we know, and most of us have the keys too.

Now I have it I also like having a non mainstream car too (for now).

The world is full of haters, leave em to it and enjoy the beast. :p
 

_Emma

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2018
1,243
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UK
I honestly don’t understand why people even read/watch these comparisons. Same thing over and over again. They’d be stupid not to compare to the two ‘best’ hot hatches on the market. Loads on a track which is totally useless, because unfortunately the M40/M42 is not a racetrack just like everyone else’s daily commutes/car use. You bought the car because you liked it, surely that’s enough and you don’t need these comparisons all the time?

They’re totally meaningless, more entertainment than anything else. Yeah the N is good car for the money, like the tools in Aldi are, but you can buy better. And that is perfectly fine. It’s not attacking the N, it’s just saying there’s your difference, wanna pay an extra £10k, that’s what you’ll get.
 

PLT_Triks

Member
Jan 23, 2019
19
34
13
Calgary
Mm no. I beg to differ.

I assure you if I really cared about what people think I wouldn't have bought a Hyundai and I especially wouldn't have bought a second one (this Veloster being the second one; the Genesis Coupe being the first).

Why do I read these N comparisons?
Because I read & watch all car reviews all the time, not just when the Veloster N is involved; it's kinda what car guys do as we find them interesting. Including track day comparisons - especially for enthusiasts type cars. Just because you and/or 99% of drivers don't take the car to the track that doesn't mean other people don't. Track comparisons are 100% worthwhile on a car that caters to enthusiasts. Just as much as street comparisons.

What I was trying to say is not that we can't compare say the Type R to the N (and the N doesn't come close to the "2 best hot hatches" out there by the way), but rather that the price disparity is so huge that these reviews aren't proper without a huge emphasis on said price disparities.

I enjoy my N regardless I assure you, but that's not the point. I'll call out unfair comparisons when I see them; like comparing an FRS to an Evo.

I don't think and never said these comparison reviews are attacking the N - in fact Im impressed the N is even mentioned in the same sentence as the Type R or Focus RS or A45 AMG....
But when reviews conduct these unfair comparisons without a huge nod to price points it invites exactly that; unfair conclusions by misinformed viewers.
 
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_Emma

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2018
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That’s the point - to be even considered should be enough. And I think anyone would be able to guess the Hyundai is cheaper, plus we have google.

They are there for entertainment, and do more good for Hyundai than anyone else (I’d love to know how many they’ve paid for). But it’s the same thing rehashed, over and over. What was the one the other day? An M4 and and S6 or something? And they were level pegging? Ha. Next week it’ll be a Ferrari and a Lamborghini.
 
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PLT_Triks

Member
Jan 23, 2019
19
34
13
Calgary
And I think anyone would be able to guess the Hyundai is cheaper, plus we have google.
You would think so wouldn't you. But the proof is in the comments section where clearly many aren't well informed. And most won't google something they clearly already have a bias against.

I am fully aware that these comparisons are for entertainment and you keep bringing it up as a justification. I am one of those who are entertained by car reviews so you don't need to reiterate the goal of the review is entertainment.

My point is NOT that the review shouldn't happen, but that a good review should emphasize the pricing when comparing cars of considerable price difference. The reviewer has that responsibility to do that homework and present it as part of the review. It isn't up to the viewer to do homework.

"Just for entertainment" and "google" isn't a valid excuse for a incomplete comparisons.
 

_Emma

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2018
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You would think so wouldn't you. But the proof is in the comments section where clearly many aren't well informed. And most won't google something they clearly already have a bias against.

I am fully aware that these comparisons are for entertainment and you keep bringing it up as a justification. I am one of those who are entertained by car reviews so you don't need to reiterate the goal of the review is entertainment.

My point is NOT that the review shouldn't happen, but that a good review should emphasize the pricing when comparing cars of considerable price difference. The reviewer has that responsibility to do that homework and present it as part of the review. It isn't up to the viewer to do homework.

"Just for entertainment" and "google" isn't a valid excuse for a incomplete comparisons.
Usually in written articles they put information at the bottom of the article informing you of the spec and price.
 

PLT_Triks

Member
Jan 23, 2019
19
34
13
Calgary
Ok. You keep giving non-arguments like;
"You should like your car regardless"
"I like my car, you should too "
"Track comparisons are useless"
"Written articles have numbers"

The subject is unfair car comparisons due to price points. Regardless of medium or whether or not you and I like our vehicles.

I like the N very much and it doesn't matter what the reviews say, I'll still like it the same. But what you and I like is irrelevant to the topic.

The original subject is that a fair comparison should compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Comparisons between apples to oranges are ok as long as there are greater emphasis by the presenter on the inherent disadvantage of one. .

So in agreeing with the original poster, my opinion of the direct comparisons I have seen & read, and I have seen and read a lot, is that many do a poor job of highlighting the price difference when comparing the 2 vehicles; be it the Type R or the Sti or the Golf R.

If you don't care about comparisons good for you and this discussion won't interest you much as it directly relates to whether or not these are fair comparisons, not whether or not we like the N.

A better argument would be something like:
"Sure it's a fair comparison because they're both front wheel drive cars!" or
"Sure it's a valid comparison because the N costs more than the ST's and SI's!"

I would be claiming the same thing, of unfair comparison, if a video reviewed a Fiesta ST against a Type R without much emphasis on price.
 

PLT_Triks

Member
Jan 23, 2019
19
34
13
Calgary
I don't mind bantering, I think it's great, it's what forums are for. Civilized back and forth. And I'm not trying to anger you, not that you are angered.

All I was trying to point out was we were straying off point.

I'd love to discuss more with anyone what IS or ISN'T a fair comparison with the N.

... Like the new gen8 GTI comes out with a rumored 295 hp and a slightly higher price tag.
 
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Cygnus X-1

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Jul 25, 2018
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When R&T talks, people listen. I think it’s great to see a long-respected periodical compare the VN to the old standard (GTI) and the new standard (CTR). Gives it further validation and a few more perpectives from elite car aficionados.

While we wait for the digital version of this particular article to be released, here are the two most recent R&T articles re: the VN:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a24851703/2019-hyundai-veloster-n-track-test-review/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23391090/2019-hyundai-veloster-n-drive-review/
 
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Nomad17

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
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USA
The ctr is best at it's price point and the N is best at it's price point, both are easily ahead of the si's and st's imo Hyundai picked the perfect price point for this car. It would be difficult to come up with "fair" comparisons all the time, all I learn from this is both are objectively excellent performance and value and i apply my subjective opinions to come up with a decision best suited to me. For me, the looks of the ctr made the decision easier.
 
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PLT_Triks

Member
Jan 23, 2019
19
34
13
Calgary
Yea, the R&T reviews are well done and do a good job of emphasizing price points during their reviews.
My annoyance are with those reviews who don't.

Oddly enough I haven't seen a thorough comparison between the 2013-2016 BK2 Genesis Coupe and the new N's.
That would be an interesting comparison to see, despite them being out of production now, just to see how much Hyundai has improved considering they were sold at the same price point.
 

Cygnus X-1

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Jul 25, 2018
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I looked seriously at the CTR but could not justify the additional $7000 USD. I didn’t like that you couldn’t mix and match performance modes, while the VN does. I also like the underdog aspect of the VN and it won’t take much to create a CTR-killer (for far less than the price differential).
 

1FastStagea

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2018
493
765
93
Canada
Yea, the R&T reviews are well done and do a good job of emphasizing price points during their reviews.
My annoyance are with those reviews who don't.

Oddly enough I haven't seen a thorough comparison between the 2013-2016 BK2 Genesis Coupe and the new N's.
That would be an interesting comparison to see, despite them being out of production now, just to see how much Hyundai has improved considering they were sold at the same price point.
Strangely they didn't make mention of the 3 cars' price in the review which I thought was a bit unfair since that's the N's main selling point (performance per dollar) imo. Obviously they listed the prices of the 3 at the end in the performance test report/comparison page but made no mention of it otherwise which is kind of unfair to the N.

I looked seriously at the CTR but could not justify the additional $7000 USD. I didn’t like that you couldn’t mix and match performance modes, while the VN does. I also like the underdog aspect of the VN and it won’t take much to create a CTR-killer (for far less than the price differential).
This is exactly what I went through when car shopping before buying the N and my reasoning for making the decision I did. Although there are a few more benefits for me owning a Hyundai where I work than the average person :p
 
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