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Engine Pure Turbos

Dan_bush27

Well-Known Member
#2
SXTH Element confirmed they have a test turbo from Pure Turbos, they will be testing it soon.

http://instagr.am/p/B8cQJy1n8I7/
I think I what these guys are doing is great, untill this post. It’s a well known fact that the standard turbo cannot reach higher than 320-330bhp converted from the crank, tops! 360+ is about crank power WITH a hybrid turbo, well documented in @TarmoT ’s and my own members threads. It’s as if their claimed WHP is what we are finding BHP in Europe, not to mention the US use lower octane fuel.
I’ve had nothing but respect for the sxth guys and their engineering looks incredible, but post like this I have seen (not just from sxth now) really annoys me after experiencing the limitations on a standard turbo first hand time and time again.
 
#3
i mean not for nothing .. but i personally have hit 298 on a dyno jet in 60* weather with just intake and down pipe. not to mention look at how it comes in its all low end and huge torque.. i just find it odd it's ok for piggy backs to hit 280 -290 with next to no mods and no one bats an eye but an ecu tune hits 300+ with basically full bolt ons and everyone cries bloody murder.

just because YOU haven't done it doesn't mean it cant be done. 300 is definitely plausible. heck the bk1 gen had the same turbo size basically and it made 260-275 whp to the rear wheels with a less efficient manifold design which means just accounting for drive train differences get you to about 300

it's not like they said it made 330 whp then i get it but 300 is definitely in the realm of possibility esp with full bolt ons .. keep in mind eveyrone is currently limited to under 23 psi unless you're using a piggy back on top of a tune so once that gets broken through more and more people will be hitting 300 esp with powerbands like this
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#6
i mean not for nothing .. but i personally have hit 298 on a dyno jet in 60* weather with just intake and down pipe. not to mention look at how it comes in its all low end and huge torque.. i just find it odd it's ok for piggy backs to hit 280 -290 with next to no mods and no one bats an eye but an ecu tune hits 300+ with basically full bolt ons and everyone cries bloody murder.

just because YOU haven't done it doesn't mean it cant be done. 300 is definitely plausible. heck the bk1 gen had the same turbo size basically and it made 260-275 whp to the rear wheels with a less efficient manifold design which means just accounting for drive train differences get you to about 300

it's not like they said it made 330 whp then i get it but 300 is definitely in the realm of possibility esp with full bolt ons .. keep in mind eveyrone is currently limited to under 23 psi unless you're using a piggy back on top of a tune so once that gets broken through more and more people will be hitting 300 esp with powerbands like this
Seriously man you need to cool your jets! From the impression your leaving, providing very little proof for what you're claiming, it's more about the spouting off then the facts.

There's simply no argument, until you've been there. You haven't and just don't know! Two here @TamoT and @ Dan_bush27 have!

First off, you need to post your own dyno testing and results. This is something you haven't bothered to do. There hasn't been a 2.0T Theta II produce that will make 298+ whp or anywhere near it with just a downpipe and intake, from first production till now. This^ is a simply fact.

I don't know of any piggyback to date that produces anything near 260-275 whp without additional bolton modifications and I venture no one here has either.

Second, the VN internals aren't going to take a steady diet of anything over 23 psi + boost without modification to; clutch and possibly closing the block deck. There are, several companies who have already have tunes available for the VN. However, even with the remapping and bolts on's; Intake, Intercooler, DownPipe, improved Turbo Inlets, etc., no one has come close to developing 300+ whp with an OEM Turbo. This is also fact, not "premature speculation"

I have considerably more invested in my VN then you including bolt ons and I'm nowhere near 300+ whp. There's also another member here with a VN that has blot on modification including meth injection and is no where near 300 whp.

I know how to get there but I'm not going to do it with merely bolt ons, especially without an upgrade of the OEM turbo and neither is anyone else with a VN or i30N.

These two noted gentleman above ^ are providing everyone with a clear and concise representation of what's achievable. Not what's claimed!

IMO, until you can show everyone here your so called dyno results you've achieved; I'd say you need be more of spectator then speculator. Just some friendly advice, capisci !

Last but not least; until SXTH Element can produce all their bolts on's and get them to their customer, it's all a moot point. Customers are still waiting and only time will tell as to what can actually be achieved by individual owners.

Plus, no dynamometer SAE standard utilized, no boost pressures attained or A/F ratios posted to bolster the actual reading they got. One dyno run does not make a standard. Frankly, This is an small OEM Turbo being pushed to and beyond its efficiency level.
 
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#7
Seriously man you need to cool your jets! From the impression your leaving, providing very little proof for what you're claiming, it's more about the spouting off then the facts.

There's simply no argument, until you've been there. You haven't and just don't know! Two here @TamoT and @ Dan_bush27 have!

First off, you need to post your own dyno testing and results. This is something you haven't bothered to do. There hasn't been a 2.0T Theta II produce that will make 298+ whp or anywhere near it with just a downpipe and intake, from first production till now. This^ is a simply fact.

I don't know of any piggyback to date that produces anything near 260-275 whp without additional bolton modifications and I venture no one here has either.

Second, the VN internals aren't going to take a steady diet of anything over 23 psi + boost without modification to; clutch and possibly closing the block deck. There are, several companies who have already have tunes available for the VN. However, even with the remapping and bolts on's; Intake, Intercooler, DownPipe, improved Turbo Inlets, etc., no one has come close to developing 300+ whp with an OEM Turbo. This is also fact, not "premature speculation"

I have considerably more invested in my VN then you including bolt ons and I'm nowhere near 300+ whp. There's also another member here with a VN that has blot on modification including meth injection and is no where near 300 whp.

I know how to get there but I'm not going to do it with merely bolt ons, especially without an upgrade of the OEM turbo and neither is anyone else with a VN or i30N.

These two noted gentleman above ^ are providing everyone with a clear and concise representation of what's achievable. Not what's claimed!

IMO, until you can show everyone here your so called dyno results you've achieved; I'd say you need be more of spectator then speculator. Just some friendly advice, capisci !

Last but not least; until SXTH Element can produce all their bolts on's and get them to their customer, it's all a moot point. Customers are still waiting and only time will tell as to what can actually be achieved by individual owners.

Plus, no dynamometer SAE standard utilized, no boost pressures attained or A/F ratios posted to bolster the actual reading they got. One dyno run does not make a standard. Frankly, This is an small OEM Turbo being pushed to and beyond its efficiency level.

for someone saying it's "fact"

there is SO many things wrong here..


1. untill i've been there? what does that even mean.. I personally tuned the car. with just an intake, then put a downpipe on it.. drove it to an independent dyno did 2 runs.. videos of the runs and pics of the sheet are on the facebook groups as i only check here once in a blue moon. both of which are on my phone which I'm not posting from.

2. multiple piggybacks have produced 260-275 on a bone stock car and 280-290 on a modified one jb4 and lap3 and a few others i've seen sheets from hell the car dynos stock 225-235 so i'm not sure how you're saying it cant make 30-40 whp .

3. I honestly highly doubt there will be any issues with the block until you go higher then even a modded turbo will do for you because.. 1 the theta II in the sonata can take 350-375 wtrq 400+ whp no problem but the trans doesn't like anything more then that. 2 the bk2 gen can take that as well no problem. No other Theta II motors have needed to goto a closed deck block unless going well over 500 since people have literally made 450-550whp on BONE STOCK bk2 gens which has a larger drive train loss. will the clutch be a problem with 350+ wtrq sure will but the motor isn't not a problem not to mention there are multiple people on other turbo setups (modded turbo or full swap) that are on stock motor with no issue with this not to mention countless theta 2's have made 290-300+ whp with just intake and down pipe in the genesis community I personally watched btr tune the first one to do this back in 2013 had mid pipe and intake and made 302 sae whp the same day that i made 252 whp on my veloster

..as far as sxth getting customers parts that has nothing to do with these results .. I did the numbers i mentioned with a makeshift intake I made of aluminum (terrible with how much heat these things kick up under the hood) and the hdt catless down pipe. I can post post the log of what the car I tuned did on the way to the dyno and it was before you could obd flash the cars it was 22 psi (yes i know the log is showing 20 psi but notice it goes up higher then that so it wasn't optimized ( and went into cat protect mode due to how the way the ecu infers EGT and it took a shit up top soon as AFR dipped below 11s)

notice how both the sheet I have and sxth fall to ~250 up top (just like all other tunes and many piggy backs)? how would part of the number be normal / correct but the rest of the pull not?

further more far as being a spectator. I've been on this forum since it was just the i30 and minimal members here, i watched dan and others post their results and following things and HAVE been a spectator. sorry i'm going to call it like i see it. I've been tuning hyundais / kias since 2014 and I'm well acquainted with the gamma and theta platforms and what they can and cant do, the N turbo is damn near identical to the bk1 turbo with a better designed manifold and fwd so making 300 is definitely possible (like i said LOOK AT HOW THE GRAPH LOOKS, you're not going to make power out to 6500 with stock turbo and make 300 out there however getting boost to try to hold better up top would greatly help the top end but still small turbo problems)


is 300 possible sure is.. if you get boost to hold 20 or so psi out to 5500 you'll have 300 whp assuming timing and afr are in the appropriate spot ( lots of timing and leaner afr then i have shown in my log) not to mention MOST of the companies dynoing use STD.. i got both numbers . 294.5 whp and 342.1 wtrq you're not going to get 330 whp, funny thing is .. i feel like everyones heads are going to explode after 2021 with whats going to happen if this is how people are now lol

so before you go "spouting off" that people are lying mmaaaaybe just maybe you should realize that like i said .. JUST because you can't doing doesn't mean someone else cant.. Don't mistake someones silence/ low post count for lack of experience/knowledge and someones higher post count for the opposite. Just some friendly advice, capisci



this is all the pics i have easy access to from the day.. I'll try to upload the video shortly..




 
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#9
I used hand crank (made in USSR) dyno and managed to take out 1000whp from stock steering wheel. If you haven’t done it by yourself, it does not mean that it is impossible. It is nice to see that so many grown up boys still belive Stanta Claus.
the irony is i have done it by myself.. but it IS good to see how many grown men cry when something goes against what they believe.. yeesh showflake much?

the difference here is what you said is impossible .. what i proposed based on turbo size and and everything is possible.. imPROBABLY ( crazy but this word actually means something different) .. but not impossible..
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#10
I commented with what I've had to say; now you cool your jets and tone it down a notch. You're not impressing anyone and you're sure not proving anything either, by the divisive drama comments.

No one here has commented you were lying and certainly not; @Dan_bush27, @TamoT or I. I did read quite a bit of aggressive unnecessary spouting off up to this point and personal speculation from you however.

I'm actually fascinated that you've provided a dynamometer run with no basic supporting information or specific for that matter. No date, time, no SAE correction factor etc. Most all dyno charts I've produced include such basic information, as to; what, where, when and how. Additionally, a header inclusive of the car tested and at least the date. Why doesn't your specific chart exclude some or all such information, especially on a Dynojet dynamometer.

Personally, your data logging doesn't prove anything to me and the dyno chart proves even less, especially being devoid of certain basic and even specific information.
Actually, far better than you can imagine. This is the exact problem I'm having here at the moment. I almost understand to well. Dan_bush27 and @TamoT have done their diligence, so have I but I don't see this in your postings, nor in what you've provided up to this point.

Mostly what you're spouting is speculation, without any trial, error or supporting evidence, which is inconsistent what these gents have provided. See my point!

Anyone can talk the talk after reading enough but are you actually walking the walk? This particular question still remains to be seen.

Oh yeah and I'm definately going to call it the way I know it to be.:)

I'm going to do some personal research and see what I can come up with specifically. By the way, I also know who 845 Motorsports and their associates are as well. Nuff Said:)
 
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#11
Lol ol boss im not the one that ran the dyno it waa during a dyno day that was hosted here in tampa. I included a data log screen shot from that day and a screen shot for my phone showing the date you are free to go on the Facebook groups where i posted all of the info the day it happened. When youre doing a run you can show multiple options for the stuff on the sheet they did the print outs with max power . The sae graph is posted on facebook as well but the pic of the graph i took should be attached of their computer where it says 2020 n again i wasnt running the dyno so i have what i have

keep moving them gold posts i worked on the tune for 3 months on a daily basis. And you're not calling me a liar ? Really i said i dynoed these numbers and you say no you didnt lol. You say that what im saying isnt right its literally all googlable. Saying something isnt possible when i have proof it is definitely sounds like you saying im not telling the truth. Which would be you saying im a liar. Lol.

You can sit there and think i havent done my due diligence but ive worked with jb4 cars other companies who have ecu tuned that made 287 whp and 360 wtrq without a fmic just because my data logs dont mean anything to you doesnt make it so it didnt happen i and about 10 other people with gens watched as i made the second highest power of everyone there aside from the big turbo bk2 that made 350 and all oh them were like oh shit

Its pretty common for people to make 280 whp on piggy backs with intake some catback work so why is it shocking that someone with fbo makes 20 more whp

You are very good at talking the talk but ironically havent set your hands on a laptop to tune one of these ecu

My jets are still completely cool ironically since youre the one coming in hot.

If youve done so much reading none of what i said is speculation far as power and power handling of the theta motors again all that info is just a google/ Facebook group away. Difference is ive personally seen and done the things im saying. Like i said ive been around these motors since 2013 and tuning gamma and theta cars since 2014. I own a 2014 vt so aside from being a forum keyboard warrior what due diligence have you done. Shoot i have tuning files that are stage two from the win ols data base that make 260 whp and 280whp on the dyno both called stg two tho but wildly different hp. So just because 1 tuner makes one number doesnt mean someone cant do better.

Do you have proof it CAN'T be done or just going based of it hasnt from what your research says because both my numbers and sxth day other wise we have proof you can. It still all has to do with the power band. Most tunes stop at 320-330. That aint gonna do it due to how the turbo acts
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#12
Laugh, but that's not really going to help you here.

Yeah ok pal, sure you have.:rolleyes: I know exactly who you are. Right now I just don't care to get into a push me, shove you, VT forums drama, altercation.

Please, take it back to the VT forums where it originates from. This BS and you, are on ignore. Oh by the way, neither have you! LMAO!!:p

(Daniel 5:27)
 
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#13
Lol nuff said? I'm glad you can Google to find that out if only you put that much effort into researching what I've said instead of saying sxth and i are lying by those graphs lol. The file size limit here is terrible anything i try to upload that i dont take from my post on Facebook is too big lol. The way you know it to be is unfortunately from the looks of it limited to the contents of this site which is fine. However again just because you havent seen it before doesnt make it impossible. Id be completely suspect too if he or i posted up 320+ whp numbers ( what i originally thought the car would be able to do before i learned the wheel sizes on the turbo) but its literally just cracking over 300 for a split second. Again i ask you why does the rest of the run make sense but the 300 doesnt ? All thats required is a large torque hit

You saying the motor and this and that hasnt ever done this won't can't possibly ever is the only speculation in here. The tldr is literally like dealing with a flat earther lol. Its not possible. Why because i said its not. Well here's a time where it happened and here are the factors that corroborate my claims. Well. I dont accept your proof. Provide more proof. Well heres someone else that has proof too. Nope i dont believe them either ( again saying you dont believe two people that have dynos is in fact calling them liars.) Because you're saying they either a falsified the number which would be lying about the true numbers by skewing them. Or that theyre not from the car that is being posted which would also be lying. You have two people (3 if you count tork making 296 whp on the same mods the car i did had if i recall and saying theyll be able to hit 300 once they get more on the car) saying 300 is possible which is again corroborated by piggyback making 270-290 with various mods and running less boost ( most piggyback run 20 psi or so on the highest setting ) so 2 psi more will punch torque up a bit more obviously and if it can hold any more boost cause it to be right there.

Like i said its possible not going to be overwhelming seeing everyone hitting 300+ whp tho. The tune thats currently on the car i dynoed won't its at 19 psi now id bet its at 280-290 due to how it holds boost out which again makes sense with the multiple people making high 270 with just an intake on piggybacks

You refuting both sxth and my claims when ive stood there and watched them with my own eyes. Right after saying it should make 280-290 or so i hope. But knowing my luck itll probably only make 270 and being just asked shocked as everyone else. ( I was the happiest dude ever to make only 299 whp lolol)
 
#14
Yeah ok pal, sure you have.:rolleyes: I know exactly who you are. Right now I just don't care to get into a push me, shove you, VT forum drama, altercation.

Please, take it back to the VT forums where it originates from. This BS and you, are on ignore. Oh by the way, neither have you! LMAO!!:p

(Daniel 5:27)
Lol sure i have what ? Worked with other people? You looked me up so im sure another 2 seconds would have shown you ive worked with Alphaspeed on lots stuff over the last 5 years. I dont care to get into pissing matches either it doesn't help anything. But ignoring everything that disagrees with you doesn't help. You say i dont have proof however i have a video posted of the car on the dyno, a dyno sheet for a 2020n and countless ours in testing and data logs that say otherwise.

Also food for thought maybe the reason why more people don't hit 300 are because the fuel pump isnt necessarily thrilled about it after while. I mean i have logs logs that show fuel pressure dropping from ~3k to 1500 but thats not proof enough more than likely. Also has been shown by other tuners aside from sxth and i. But hey you do you and block me. Unfortunately that doesnt make me or sxth any less correct tho
 
#15
also for anyone else who actually cares outside of HUA mr.jones over there neither myself or SXTH is saying we would be selling tunes that make 300+ whp to customers ( as i mentioned i dialed things back for the car i tuned ) just that it's actually possible to tag it with enough low end torque
 

TarmoT

Well-Known Member
#16
Ok guys, lets cool down, even 21psi of boost does not make stock turbocharger to blow decent amount of hot air to the IC. 21psi of boost + stage1 turbocharger can reach 300+ whp but absolute limit for stage1 charger in what I am runing at the moment (about 340whp and 24.65psi of boost).
Oem turbo can not hold boost over 5400rpm and if you want to make 320whp with that small guy, 26psi of boost is required. Another thing is that everything over 21,75psi must be done buy using piggyback. Stock ECU has 21,75psi boost limiter and most of people who are using more boost with remap, have had lots of trouble with random ECU fault codes. I finished by deleting baro sensor fault code from error table, but after that some other DTC codes started to appear :(
 
#19
Ok guys, lets cool down, even 21psi of boost does not make stock turbocharger to blow decent amount of hot air to the IC. 21psi of boost + stage1 turbocharger can reach 300+ whp but absolute limit for stage1 charger in what I am runing at the moment (about 340whp and 24.65psi of boost).
Oem turbo can not hold boost over 5400rpm and if you want to make 320whp with that small guy, 26psi of boost is required. Another thing is that everything over 21,75psi must be done buy using piggyback. Stock ECU has 21,75psi boost limiter and most of people who are using more boost with remap, have had lots of trouble with random ECU fault codes. I finished by deleting baro sensor fault code from error table, but after that some other DTC codes started to appear :(
usually i was holding about 20 psi to about 5200 or so then it falls off to 16.5 by redline i have seen ~19 psi out to 5600 buuut i believe i got in it later in the rpm band so that doesn't really count. the 21.75 "limit" is also depending on barometric sensor all of the sim2k thus far have had this issue once you hit the sensor max (usually around 22.5psi) it'll give you a full stop and throw an over boost code.. as you mentioned you can delete the code but unfortunately that doesn't fix the issue, i was working on this for a while utilizing the ways to get around it from the bk1 and bk2 gen coupe but nope. theres unfortunately a myriad of things that get in the way one of the notable things is the car has a "modelled" compressor speed which it partially uses boost to figure out how fast it thinks the turbo is spinning.. this really is a PITA when you run a bigger turbo on the car as you still got stuck at the same psi you did on stock turbo because it thinks HOLY COW THE TURBO IS SPINNING SO FAST, even tho in reality it's spinning slower then stock. Unfortunately these tables in the N dont mimic the ones from the bk1. bk2 gen or YF /k5 all of which I have defs for so talk about major disappointment. Unfortunately though it's the same TYPE of ecu (sim2k) they changed things just enough to be a PITA with some stuff (hyundai LOVES doing this, they removed the boost limiter that was on the veloster turbo when they did the ES(yes its not a bosch branded ecu in the elantra sport but the overall architecture is the same) like of all things why would you remove that LOL also made me go crazy for a few days trying to find it til i was just like eh lets give this a shot .. hits 24 psi.. WOH there nelly guess they don't have a single value overboost limiter LOL. for instance the bk2 gen theres a value for throwing an issue if you go over the sensor max based on the voltage ( it's set at 4.85 stock) if you change it to over 5v it makes it so it doesn't care since it's basically saying "freak out if you hit over this voltage" which you obviously cant do that on a 0-5v sensor.. that didn't do anything even in conjunction with removing the cel. I was at it for a good 2-3 weeks trying to figure this out till i said well it really doesn't matter because I don't intend to go over 20-21 psi on stock turbo any way LOL

i don't think any one will be hitting 320 whp on stock turbo unless they're running ungodly amount of boost and e85 or race gas/ meth which i wouldn't recommend unless you keep the torque limiters low so you can try to manage it a little better but as you mentioned you need a piggyback to do that unfortunately at this time other wise you're going to be pushing like 400 ft lbs of torque at like 2500 rpm which isn't recommended even with how thicc these rods are LOL

but again I know i'm not saying i would be selling a 300 whp tune to a customer like you said 22 psi is tossing a lot of hot air and while granted i don't have full access to all the WG stuff, fact is even though it has an electronic gate it falls HARD. the 2019 VT is very similar to the elantra sport minus higher compression and electronic gate (turbo size is the same or damn near) but the 2019 vt holds boost WAY better which and has way easier control then the es and even the VT making it be able to make way more power to redline then the ES. As mentioned previous with the 2.0N cars having the same turbo size as the bk1 i'm not shocked that it's basically the same boost curve.. they usually peak 21 and fall all the way down to 12-14 lol so the difference in manifold design and electronic gate holding a LITTLE better makes sense but smol turbo is smol. getting a way to even hold 18 psi somehow on stock turbo would net better results over all but again smol :( there are things that work in the bk2 gen but i haven't experimented enough with them .. first testing didn't really do much unfortunately if anything :(

@Davo01 idk if you mean me or someone else but i'm not on really any v-n aus groups

you guys all have to remember .. doing something on a customer car thats going to leave and drive however they want on the car is VERY different then having a test car and doing some crazy shit just for fun to see what you can do. just because sxth and i have made 300 (yes i'm stealing 1hp for this) doesn't mean much in the scheme of things just that it's possible to do it.. recommended .. no.. definitely not lol 350 wtrq at 2500 is a handful on stock tires lol. but it CAN be done. but if i had a customer come to me and say hey i want that 300 hp tune i'd be like .. nahhhhhhhh a good tuner will do what they think is safe regardless of what the customer asks for. so yes there aren't going to be a slew of people running around with 300 whp for this reason at least till a few things are worked through and even then that will be reserved for the people with FBO and meth (realistically the only person i would even think about giving the tune i dynoed to).

oddly i was always calm :) just figured i'd provide the other side (non customer side) of what CAN be done if 0 fux are given LOL which is very different then someone going and getting a tune from some random company.. again doesn't make it impossible just improbable :)
 

Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS

Well-Known Member
#20
Soooo.... Getting back to topic here does anyone have any more information on pure turbos ? Do they stuff OEM Turbo’s with bigger wheels, better bearings etc and what’s their track record like. Any one have experience with them ?
 

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