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Engine Engine startup issues

i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
With about 3,000 km of mileage, the car’s crooked starts in the morning also haunt me.
Sometimes he just twists the starter for a long time, sometimes he "gurgles" at 400-500 rpm and cannot grapple.
I always keep the ignition on for about 10 seconds before starting the engine.
It looks something like this:

Today, at a run of 9200 km I took out the candles and was horrified - the candle of the first cylinder was all flooded.
Signed up on Monday to his authorized dealer.
Who can have any thoughts on this? Bad injector?

Large1.jpg

large2.jpg
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
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Rocky Mountains, US
Most likely it's bleeding off fuel from the injector controller and injector.

The plug is firing ok, looking at the insulator and igniter. However, the dark brown on the threads is not an indicator of a bad injector. Thats oil residue on the threads. :)
 

i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Most likely it's bleeding off fuel from the injector controller and injector.

The plug is firing ok, looking at the insulator and igniter. However, the dark brown on the threads is not an indicator of a bad injector. Thats oil residue on the threads. :)
I have no questions for the candles of 2, 3 and 4 cylinders, yes, they are not straight pretty, but in every way it is many times better than the candles of 1 cylinder.
Do you think that the candle 1 cylinder oil? It seemed to me that this fuel is too liquid and smells of gasoline.
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
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It's both being a GDI. It's call fuel dilution. Excess fuel pressure bleed can be one of the symptoms but not necessarily the cause. Was the plug tight and seated when you removed it?

How do you drive the car regularly, In congested traffic or out on the open road? :)
 

i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
It's both being a GDI. It's call fuel dilution. Excess fuel pressure bleed can be one of the symptoms but not necessarily the cause. Was the plug tight and seated when you removed it?

How do you drive the car regularly, In congested traffic or out on the open road? :)
I don’t think that such a condition of the spark plug is just a feature of GDI :)
Look at message 159 in this thread, the person had a similar problem there - bad starts and as a result they found one wet / dirty spark plug and on the basis of this they replaced 1 injector, now everything seems to be fine.
I drive 90% of the time on the highway or on empty roads, very rarely stand in traffic jams.
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
4,590
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Rocky Mountains, US
A wet plug/s can account for many things. However, you don't replace just one injector. It's generally done so in a set. There are specific reasons why you replace them as a set. Time will tell as to his issue.

Your's could be a number of things, not just related to fuel pressure leak down. Until the fuel system is pressure tested and found to be leaking thru one of the injector's or controller, no one can truly say. You need to take it to the dealer service and let them do what needs to be done.

However, just because the plug threads are wet, doesn't necessarily mean it's an injector/s problem specifically. Some have been HPFP's, some with injector/s issues. A few have been injector nozzles clogged or an intermittent firing of the coil pack.

It can most certainly be a number of issues. :)
 
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i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
It can most certainly be a number of issues. :)
Of course, I understand that gasoline on the spark plug can not point to 100% of the problem in the nozzle, but judging from the experience of forum users who unsubscribe from this topic, replacing one or more nozzles helped to solve the problem.

Today a friend of mine took his car from the official dealer, he applied there with exactly the same problem.
At the end of the dealership found a wet spark plug in the third cylinder, but they could not reproduce the problem of poor start. They checked the car with diagnostic equipment, looked at the pressure in the fuel ramp, high pressure fuel pump and found nothing.
They put a dry spark plug in the third cylinder and turned off the non-standard alarm, asked the car to go this way for 2-3 weeks and to contact them again.
If this is really a problem in the nozzle or some kind of O-ring/gasket, then the dry spark plug in the 3 cylinder will become wet again and they will be able to deal with this issue further.
Too bad, I was hoping that the wet spark plug would already be the reason for changing the nozzle, I would like the problem to be found and diagnosed as soon as possible.
My visit is scheduled for Monday, but if my car can not reproduce a bad start in front of their eyes, I think they will do the same and send me for 2-3 weeks :)

photo_2020-05-22_20-39-17.jpg

At the first disassembly of gasoline residue on the spark plug of the third cylinder. Start-ups within two days are stable. Single manifestation at morning start. Spark plugs have been switched from third to first cylinder. Ignition coils changed from third to second cylinder. There's been a temporary shutdown of a non-standard alarm. Surveillance is required.

Check the state of the spark plugs before attempting to display a defect.
 
Last edited:

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
4,590
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Rocky Mountains, US
Electrical, Fuel, Air. At least they're attempting to eliminating any possible problems without just assuming. The need to do a leak down of the Fuel system ie, HPFP pump, fuel rail, etc. along with a cylinder pressure and leak down check :)
 

i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Electrical, Fuel, Air. At least they're attempting to eliminating any possible problems without just assuming. The need to do a leak down of the Fuel system ie, HPFP pump, fuel rail, etc. along with a cylinder pressure and leak down check :)
Let them do what they think is right, the main thing is to have a result.
I'll be their nightmare until I'm sure my car starts up normally and all the spark plugs are dry 😁
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
4,590
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Rocky Mountains, US
The only time you'll ever get completely dry spark plugs is; to do a, "Spark Plug Chop Test.":)

This HPFP will always have pressure and fuel. The injector controllers and injectors, will also remain pressurized.
 

i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
The only time you'll ever get completely dry spark plugs is; to do a, "Spark Plug Chop Test.":)

This HPFP will always have pressure and fuel. The injector controllers and injectors, will also remain pressurized.
Sorry, I don't understand you.
Are you saying it's okay to have such wet (not dirty) spark plugs on our car?
If it is, I fundamentally disagree.
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
4,590
3,471
113
Rocky Mountains, US
You're going to have wet plugs no matter. A pressurized system will cause it , unless a "plug chop test" is conducted to read the spark plugs. Everyone of the spark plugs you pictured where wet to some extent. This is because the system is constantly pressurized even at shutdown and will leave unburnt fuel in the cylinder. The only way to preclude it is, during a plug chop.

(Spark Plug Reading for proper A/F mixture.)
Plug Chop Test;

1. Get new spark plug(s), but don't put them in yet.

2. Warm up motor to operating temp on old plugs.

3. Install new plugs.

4. Accelerate through all gears to top gear with throttle pinned.

5. When you hit the top of the top gear, kill the motor and pull in the clutch.

6. Remove the spark plug(s) and ride home on the old plug(s).

7. You should see a brown 2mm "smoke ring" at the base of the white center electrode if the main jets are dialed in perfect.

8. if the smoke ring is darker than chocolate brown or taller than 2mm, you're rich but if it revs clean to full throttle, you can leave it there and be on the rich side.

9. If the smoke ring is smaller than 2mm or lighter than chocolate brown, you're lean and a A/F ratio adjustment is made.
 

i30N_Russia

New Member
Dec 10, 2019
23
6
3
Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Everyone of the spark plugs you pictured where wet to some extent.
No, no, buddy, we seem to be talking about different things :)
Those spark plugs that I showed above (three out of four) - I don't have any questions about the raid/dirt on them, it's a natural process and it depends more on the quality of fuel, I think.
I'm talking about that spark plug, which has all the threads filled with fuel (given that I've been on the road for about 40 minutes at 140-160km/h before), it's not just dry raid - it's a liquid substance that leaves traces after contact with it.
When I say "dry spark plug" - I mean a spark plug that has no fuel or oil that will leave traces if you touch it, and even the presence of dry plaque / dirt is a completely different issue, which in this situation I do not care much.Large11.jpg