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Daily Driver and Track Car

Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
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69
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California
I purchased a Veloster N with Performance Package in May as a new daily driver. It is the perfect daily driver for me because I can cruise comfortably down the freeway in Normal mode listening to a good stereo. Then I can click the N button and be in Race Mode. This car replaced a 2003 E46 325i. I held onto the E46 for so many years because I could never find a under $40K car that handled as well.

My other two cars are an NC and ND Miata in SCCA STR Solo Trim. They have gone too far down the slippery slope for them to be daily commuters on the freeway. Too stiff, too loud, … So the NC is a weekend car and the ND is my AX car.

This thread will discuss some mods and setup I am making to my N for the track. The goal of this car is to have a well balanced fun car and not ruin the daily driving experience.
 

Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
78
69
18
California
Date: June 22 2019

Track: Auto Club Speedway Infield, Fontana, CA
Temperature: 85F Degrees.
Stock Wheels and Tires
Starting PSI 29F, 26R
Ending PSI 39F, 34R
Front Camber: -1.9 (Camber Bolts)
Rear Camber: -1.6
Front Toe – Zero
Rear Toe : 1/16 (1.24mm) Toe IN

This is a smaller track and I reached a top speed of 110 mph on the fastest straight.

Some of the corners I had to go down to 2nd, so I was at the top of 2nd and 3rd quite a bit, hitting 4th on the straights.

N mode with ESC off and it was not too bumpy.

Oil Temperature Gauge sat on the bottom of the RED the entire 20-minute session.

Outside fronts are more worn down which is no surprise with only -1.9 camber.

No brake fade. But I was catching traffic often and so not always having to threshold brake.

The car is pushing in all the corners. I could be going in too hot as well :). I am used to AX in an ND Miata in STR trim with -3.4F, -2.2R Camber and Penske DA shocks. I was following a friend in his ND and I am on average 1 sec faster than him in AX on a 60 second course. I could not hang with him in the corners and transitions, but I did catch him at the end of the straight.
 
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Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
78
69
18
California
Date: Sept 8 2019

Track: Auto Club Speedway Lot 6, Fontana, CA
Temperature: 87F Degrees
Hankook 245/40/18 on 18x8.5 Wheels
Front 35 PSI, Rear 40 PSI.
Front Camber: -1.9
Rear Camber: -1.0
Front Toe - 1/8" (2.92 mm) Toe OUT
Rear Toe - 1/8" (2.92 mm) Toe OUT

It is too hot for track events in So. Calif, so I decided to do some setup and testing at an AX event. This is with the Porsche Club and I helped setup the track, so it is longer and faster than your typical SCCA track. This is a video of my best run:


Since the first alignment was pushy, I made an alignment change. Rear Camber was reduced from -1.6 to -1.0. Front Toe OUT 1/8” for better turn in. Rear Toe OUT 1/8" Toe to get the rear end to come around faster.

The car is much better with this alignment. It is rotating around turns nicely with the ability to get controllable lift off oversteer. There is a slight hint of understeer when pushing into the uphill turn at 01:02 in the video. I had my friend watch my car go around the course and they saw the inside rear wheel lift at 00:16 of the video.

The car needs more front camber. No surprises here. There is way too much rollover as shown by all the worn away shoe polish.

https://postimages.org/][/url]

The rear is much better:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

Before each run, I set the front and rear to 35 PSI rear for a few runs. I then raised the rear to 40 PSI. This made the car a little looser and I dropped 0.5 secs immediately. After the last 4-run session, these were the measurements - Inside Temp, Middle Temp, Outside Temp, PSI:

Left Front 154, 159, 151, 35 PSI
Left Rear 111, 120, 123, 40 PSI
Right Front 131,133,129, 35.2 PSI
Right Rear 112, 117, 117, 40.2 PSI

Left Front Tire after 20 60 second runs. The outside of the tire is on the left of the picture.


Left Rear Tire after 20 60 second runs. The outside of the tire is on the left of the picture. The gunk on the right of the tire is OMP (Others People Rubber).


Right Front Tire after 20 60 second runs. The outside of the tire is on the right of the picture.


Right Rear Tire after 20 60 second runs. The outside of the tire is on the right of the picture. The gunk on the left of the tire is OMP (Others People Rubber).


I had the car in N mode with ESC disabled. It was much better than Custom mode with suspension set to Sport for most of the track. There was a couple of spots where I would have had more grip with Custom mode but I went with the setting that was best for most of the course.

I forgot to log Torque Pro during the runs but I did take a note of the IAT as I crossed the finish line. I saw IAT at around 122F. I left the engine running to bleed tire pressures, and water down the front tires and intercooler. When I got back in the car for my next run the IAT was 140F! So, the ECU is going to pull timing before I even begin my next run. There was noticeable power loss between the morning and afternoon session.

Overall, I had a blast driving the car. This is from someone who drives a national level prepped ND Miata in STR Trim. Of course, the N does not handle like the ND which is 800 lbs lighter. But it still handles pretty good and having power is fun!

66.356 was good for 5th best Raw Time. If I was on Bridgestone RE-71R, I would have probably been 1s faster. These were the cars faster than me:

2006 S2000 in STR Trim with 285 Tires on 10 inch rims 64.094 (I normally run neck and neck with him in my ND)

2017 BMW M2 with 450HP on Hoosiers 64.436

2017 Cayman 718S 64.593

2015 Porsche GT3 65.869

For people new to performance driving this does not mean the N is faster than most Porsche. The driver always makes the biggest difference. But it does mean it is pretty damn fast.
 
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Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
78
69
18
California
Date: Sept 10 2019

I installed the Boomba Rear Motor Mount. I still have my RS4 tries on the car from Sundays AX since I will be racing on them again on Sat. Launch is much improved. My first attempt at launching had me hit the rev limiter before I could react to shift. It took me by surprise how fast it reached red-line. Shifts are also more precise. It is amazing how much more throttle I can apply without wheel hop. I knew less wheel hop would translate to better front-end grip and expected better cornering turn in. It was better but what really surprised me was how much more the car rotated around corners. It feels like adding an additional 0.5 degrees of negative camber. I had a huge grin on my face going around one of my test corners. I turned back around to do it 10 more times :) Corner exit speed is also improved because I can go to gas sooner without inducing understeer.

NVH - You notice it in idle when the AC is running and when launching in 1st at regular street traffic speed. It is felt in the steering wheel, dead pedal and clutch release. Not much of it is felt in the seat. It is not terribly bad though. The trade off is everything is smoother at speed. It is completely worth it! Cruising on the freeway, you can feel the road a little more but the added NVH is so small you would only notice the difference if you are familiar with driving the car before and after the new mount. You would forget that difference in a few days and we have been told things get smoother after break-in. That said the roads around here are pretty good. YMMV if you have really bumpy roads.

Installation - It was not so easy for me. The front bolt was a SOB to get loose. I ended up having to point a ½ inch torque wrench with a 2-foot pipe out the front of the car to get it loose. Then when I went to insert the front bolt, it did not line up with the sub frame bolt. I tried putting the original mount on and the holes did not line up on that either. That meant the engine shifted a little. Lucky my neighbor has a hoist. First, we lifted the engine a little from the rear hook but that moved it in the wrong direction. We could not locate a front hook, so we just decided to hook it on the alternator mount since it was just a slight lift we needed. That did the trick and we got the hole aligned and the mount installed.
 

Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
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69
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California
Date: Sept 14, 2019. 87F Morning, 100F Afternoon!

Track: Auto Club Speedway Lot 6, Fontana, CA
Hankook 245/40/18 on 18x8.5 Wheels
Front 35 PSI, Rear 40 PSI.
Front Camber: -1.9
Rear Camber: -1.0
Front Toe - 1/8" (2.92 mm) Toe OUT
Rear Toe - 1/8" (2.92 mm) Toe OUT
Boomba Rear Motor Mount

One week from the last AX. Same venue, different track but going in the same direction so a lot of similar elements.


The only change is the Boomba Rear Motor Mount. I love this mount. More front grip means the car turns in better and I can go to throttle sooner. Highly recommend for any performance driving. I would do it for a street only cars as well.

This practice event was with the CalClub Region SCCA. The home of many Multi-Time National Champions. My best time was a 63.1. Multi-Time National Champ, Alien Driver Jon Lugod drove one lap and ran a 62.5. He said the car was fun. He said maybe try a rear sway bar but not too big otherwise the front end will plow. I am going to see how car does at the big track in this configuration before doing anything else. Also, I really want more front camber and that will make the car looser. For reference, the top STR (ND Miata, S2000) cars ran in the mid 60.x.

The surprise at this event was a stock 2020 Supra. Some of the top drivers like Lugod were testing it out. The best time in the Supra was 62.4. So only 0.1s faster than the VN. BUT, it was on crappy stock tires.

Morning temp was 87F. Here are is log of one of the morning runs. High IAT, not good.



Afternoon temp was 100F. Here are is log of one of the afternoon runs. Really High IAT. You could really feel the power loss and turbo lag difference on corner exit compared to the morning.



I rotated the tires front to back before the event. This is how they look with 16 1-minute runs on the front and 20 1-minute runs on the rear.

Left Front. The outside of the tire is on the left of the picture.



Left Rear. The outside of the tire is on the left of the picture.



Right Front. The outside of the tire is on the right of the picture.



Right Rear. The outside of the tire is on the right of the picture.



Tire Temps after the last afternoon run - Inside Temp, Middle Temp, Outside Temp:

Left Front 181, 187, 173
Left Rear 137, 145, 150
Right Front 154,150,152
Right Rear 139, 141, 143
 

TarmoT

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2018
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Nice topic and I wish you lots of nice track days for future.
I don´t have Veloster N but if you don´t mind I´d like to share littlebit of my own experience too, so maybe you will find something you also want to test.
My setup is here:
Front Camber: -2.5
Rear Camber: -2.0
Front Toe - 1/8" (2.92 mm) Toe OUT
Rear Toe - zero
Front caster - max possible what was able to make with Whiteline anti lift bushing
Front ARB - Whitleine adjustable (hardest setting) with adjustable drop links
Rear ARB - Whitleine adjustable (middle setting) with drop links
Transmission mount - Powerflex black race bushing
Suspension - ST XTA coilover suspension with front adjustable top monts and 4 x of rebound adjustment (rear dampers are 3-turns open, front dampers 1-turn open on smooth tracks and 6-turns open on bumpy tracks).
Tyres front - Extreme VR2 235/40 R18 (they are wider actually) R7 medium compound
Tyres rear - Extreme VR2 235/40 R18 R5 soft compound
Tyre pressures on cold - 25psi in rear and 27psi in front
Tyre pressures after session - 35psi in front and 32.6psi in rear
First of all, I must tell you that my car is impossible to use daily - alignment is too agressive for our local city streets (we have heavy transport passing our town and there are pretty deep tracks + holes on the streets). On smooth roads it is 100% useable and car sits on the ground like glued ;)
On track (we have also short and very technical tracks made for go-carts) car has no understeer and just small amount of oversteer during braking (my driving style is a bit different than yours and I prefer to not have too much oversteer). No traction problems on acceleration when tyres are on working temp. Tyre temps in front and rear are littlebit lower on outer edges than in centre and inner edge because they will cool down pretty fast during a cooling lap. But tire wear is very even and there is no difference between inner, middle and outer edges.
 
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Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
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Thanks Tarmo. Of course I have been following your thread. It is the most hard core build. I'd like too but then as you said it would not make a good daily anymore :)
 

RameusJH

Member
Mar 12, 2019
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Following on TarmoT's note on alignment, I was wondering too...how does the 1/8 toe out front and rear feel on the street? I would have expected rear toe out to be very squirrelly.
 
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Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
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Following on TarmoT's note on alignment, I was wondering too...how does the 1/8 toe out front and rear feel on the street? I would have expected rear toe out to be very squirrelly.
On the freeway it still tracks straight if you drive normally with one or two hands on the steering wheel. You can still relax and zip coffee with one hand. If you let go of the steering wheel then it is more sensitive to following the crown of the road. I don't find it squirrelly at all. It takes corners and sweepers so much better. We will see how tire wear goes...

If I get more front camber (which is needs really bad) or decide I need a rear bar then I can probably go back to zero toe on the rear.

Besides more front camber, I think lowering the center of gravity would help a lot. But I want to keep the stock electronic dampers because that is what makes it a great daily driver. You don't want to lower too much because that reduces suspension travel. I wish the manufacturers would advertise their spring rates...
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2019
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Following on TarmoT's note on alignment, I was wondering too...how does the 1/8 toe out front and rear feel on the street? I would have expected rear toe out to be very squirrelly.
It will track well, as Curves has indicated. Tire wear maybe a little accelerated but with the Pirelli's or a similar tire but it's not going to make that much difference. These type aren't designed to be a 30K tyres.

Lowering will help and use of the Mando ESC does as well.
 

RameusJH

Member
Mar 12, 2019
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Besides more front camber, I think lowering the center of gravity would help a lot. But I want to keep the stock electronic dampers because that is what makes it a great daily driver. You don't want to lower too much because that reduces suspension travel. I wish the manufacturers would advertise their spring rates...
I very much agree on the ECS and lack of rate info. I'm thankful to see your progress and results. Your goals seem very similar to mine.

It will track well, as Curves has indicated. Tire wear maybe a little accelerated but with the Pirelli's or a similar tire but it's not going to make that much difference. These type aren't designed to be a 30K tyres.

Lowering will help and use of the Mando ESC does as well.
I certainly agree about the lowering and I love my Mando ECS10, but conventional wisdom is that rear toe-out results in straight line instability, so I don't think it was a foregone conclusion that it would track well. Many references support this (e.g.: Carroll Smith's Tune to Win pg 137).

Having said that, Curves tried it and found it fine in our application so I'm happy.
 

Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
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California
My first device mount for the car is documented here. It works after replacing the original tape with real 3M tape. It is not perfect though. The 3 inch arm does have some wobble when driving over bumpy roads. I will try a shorter 1 inch arm.

https://n-cars.net/forums/threads/what-did-you-do-to-your-n-today.3007/page-5#post-56631

I decided to try a second mount because I wanted a more secure (non-magnetic) mount for the Phone for track use for monitoring temps. I still use the first mount to hold my AiM Solo DL Data Logger.

The new mount is from ProClip. It says 2012-2018 Veloster but I decided to test it without removing the adhesive then return it if it did not fit:

https://www.proclipusa.com/product/804688-proclip-left-mount/804688-proclip-left-mount

The mount did fit but it did not clip in as tight as I would have liked. I could slide it up and down. I decided to unpeel the attached cheap thin sticky tape and use real 3M tape. Not only did the 3M secure it, but the extra thickness made it clip in tighter making it a perfect fit.

Before I mounted it to the car, I screwed in the device holder so as not to rip the mount out while I screwed it in. I chose this to allow me to interchange different devices:

https://www.proclipusa.com/product/device-mounting-adapter/device-mounting-adapter

This is it mounted to my car with the female half of the device adapter:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

The male half of the adapter is too thick to attach to my phone for daily use, so I got this Olive mount and screw the magnet part of that into the male half:

https://www.proclipusa.com/product/oliv-amps-mount-kit/oliv-amps-mount-kit

Now I can slide it into the mount and have a magnetic mount:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

I attach the metal shim to the back of my phone case. It is thin so does not add thickness:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

For daily use, I just attach my phone to the magnet:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

For track driving or aggressive back road driving, I don't trust a magnet so I attach the male half of the adapter to an old Android Phone with 3M tape so it can slide into the mount:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

If I want to attach my Aim Solo DL, I slide this Aim Bracket out of a different ProClip mount in my AX car. The back of the bracket has the male half of the adapter 3M taped to it:



The AiM Solo DL clips into it's bracket

https://postimages.org/][/url]

The AiM Solo DL can now slide into the mount:

https://postimages.org/][/url]

The mount is rock solid, no wobble over bumps.
 
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Curves

Member
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Added some lightness.
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-h6-rs/



It is the same H6 size as the stock battery. I got the 24 Ah version. On my scale, the stock battery was 44 lbs (20 kg) and this one 9.6 lbs (4.4 kg). A savings of 34.4 lbs. (15.6 kg). In my Miata's, I have dropped 20lbs from a lighter battery and the difference was not huge. In this car there is a BIG difference. 34.4 lbs from a front heavy car makes a BIG difference. Turn in, cornering and transitions is vastly improved. I take my back roads in N Custom with the steering at the heaviest setting. I had to look down several times because it felt like it was in Normal mode. There is less under-steer and I am able to take transitions and corners much faster. Daily/Regular driving around it just feels like a much lighter car.

I got 15% off because they had a special over on the rennlist forums.
Expensive? Yes
Worth it? Yes. The difference feels similar to the difference between my stock wheels/tires and my Konig/RS4 setup.
 

CF2000

Member
Aug 4, 2018
68
37
18
USA
That is exactly the battery I was looking to get. I may go for the 30Ah version since my car sits for 2-3 weeks sometimes. What do you have to do to get the 15%off offer? Just be a forum member?
 

Curves

Member
May 31, 2019
78
69
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California
I used the coupon Gt3cupcar. It was for two week so I not sure if it is still valid. But try it. From my research on pricing, it appears they do the regular holiday discounts. So, I am sure there will be discounts around Black Friday.
 

CF2000

Member
Aug 4, 2018
68
37
18
USA
I used the coupon Gt3cupcar. It was for two week so I not sure if it is still valid. But try it. From my research on pricing, it appears they do the regular holiday discounts. So, I am sure there will be discounts around Black Friday.
Thanks a lot. I also saw they had a 20% off for last year's black friday so I may hold off for that. I just did a quick try with "Gt3cupcar" and it is expired unfortunately.
 

Dan_bush27

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
812
1,708
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youtu.be
Hi @Curves great thread! I enjoyed reading your in depth reviews from your track day, have you any update for us on how you’re getting on with everything?