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Chasing N at Laguna

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#2
He's getting smoked by a lower horsepower VN. Can't stay anywhere near him, even on the straights. Owners says he's he's making 330 at the wheels?? There's no way, utilizing 91 octane + booster, which will give at most 2.6 RM+2.

I heard a lot of excuses from the driver and owner but they never did catch the VN. In fact lost ground in the process. Just goes to show you what a well setup VN can do at the hands of someone who can actually drive.;)
 
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#3
The type r is on extremely worn out tires, of course he can't stay with him. Look how much he is sliding. With that said the type r was getting him on some of the straights.
 
#4
Here's something interesting. The straight pipes did a video " learning how to drive with a professional driver " Where they used a veloster N on the track. Mark solo the professional driver was able to get a 1:23.5 best lap time with the N.

Now the throttle house did a "STI vs type r " video where they tested the cars on the same track. The throttle house professional driver got a 1:23.7 in the type r on the same track.

Between the 2 videos, you'll find these times on the same track:

Focus RS 1:23.00
VN 1:23.5
CTR 1:23.7
STI 1:24.XX
GOLF R 1:25.XX

On a larger track with long straights, the type r had the advantage. On a shorter track with plenty of bends, it seems like it's up to driver skill.
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#5
He's sliding around that much on a set of heat cycled slicks? It doesn't mean they are worn out. Maybe greasy but not worn out. That's about the most asinine thing I've seen.

.05 tenths is not that much of an advantage for a Focus RS. The track is Laguna Seca. You can tell by the corkscrew. Laguna Seca is a fast track. Been there done that on superbikes.

Show me anywhere in the video he caught and nearly passed the VN? You can't!
 
#6
He's sliding around that much on a set of heat cycled slicks? It doesn't mean they are worn out. Maybe greasy but not worn out. That's about the most asinine thing I've seen.

.05 tenths is not that much of an advantage for a Focus RS. The track is Laguna Seca. You can tell by the corkscrew. Laguna Seca is a fast track. Been there done that on superbikes.

Show me anywhere in the video he caught and nearly passed the VN? You can't!
The type r was oversteering because worn out rear tires cmon, I love the N just like you but you know damn well the type R is more composed than what we saw in the video. They were having fun with fwd drive oversteer because bad tires.

Also multiple times in the video he says the car is cutting power. He also mentions he's losing time while sliding...

The track times I was talking about tho were not lauguna seca. I mentioned it was a Canadian test track the 2 channels used to test the cars. I brought up those times because that's actually impressive and it DID beat the type r while both cars were driven by professional drivers...
 

R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#7
He had slicks on all four wheels. Tracks days in Cali like Laguna, you'll get a black flagged for such sliding around. They don't want the track walls damaged and you're limited on actual speed also. The Type R isn't that good of a track car anyway, without help.

A Type R with 330 whp as they claimed, would have easily overtaken him hand over fist on this straight, especially being that close coming out of the corkscrew. There's only one fast lefthand sweeper after the corkscrew and it's 100+ foot drop downhill from there, with a lot of momentum.

If he couldn't pull him in from there past the finish straight, he wasn't going to do it anywhere else either. Just trust me on this one, I've raced enough for real to know the difference.;)

Cutting power, has to do with the traction control on the Type R not being completely off. There are 9 steps to turn it off completely. They didn't have it off. The traction control was limiting power in and out of the corners. It wasn't due to wheel spin. If he'd turned it all the way off, they'd have spun it several times and definately got black flagged. Once that happens, you're done for the day.

If you look at the attempts to catch up, they were specifically under late braking and trying to throw it into the corner, which produces even more oversteer. It will cause oversteer even with decent tires. It can be averted by smoother driving. Smooth is fast, not hoping to catch up on braking. You make driving adjustments when faced with obstacles, especially tires going away.

We square off turns on motorcycles, even cars, when tires start to go off. Otherwise, we drift in and out of the turns on throttle. Not full throttle but on throttle, using very little braking and mostly a little rear brake bias. This is where a good heel toeing, will help. He was doing neither. We use the engine rpms and gearing to slow down enough, to power thru the corners.

He never did and doesn't know how too. Driver kept relying on late braking and to much throttle application coming into and past the apex of each turn, all the way thru the video. Cornering is not like turning a switch on and off. It's a smooth transition from approach, thru gear selection, braking and continuous throttle application.

If his tires were that bad, you park it, so you don't run into someone else. These are track days, not races.:)
 
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#8
I stopped reading at " The Type R isn't that good of a track car, without help " the type r has broken many records already and is one of the fastest stock fwd track cars and that's a fact. Any car gets better with "some help". If your trying to make the case that a stock N is faster than a CTR that's just absolutely absurd and you lose all credibility in any thing you say moving forward lol.

The N is a wonderful performer no doubt. The CTR is better .
 
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R Veloster N

Well-Known Member
#9
The CTR in stock form is no better and I don't care if you stopped reading either. The only reason for that is; you didn't want to read the truth.

No, ever car doesn't get better with help. It's gets better when the driver knows the limitations and uses it to his advantage. You can bolt on any suspension parts you want. If they aren't completely compatible and setup correctly they won't help. Plus, you need a driver who is knowledgeable of setting up for a particular track and conditions.

Now, I know why you didn't read further. :rolleyes: And no, I'm not going to engage in a technical discussion with you about proper setup or driving techniques, when you know very little about what you're attempting to discuss, sorry.

If your trying to make the case that a stock N is faster than a CTR that's just absolutely absurd and you lose all credibility in any thing you say moving forward lol.
No, I didn't but you did. If you weren't thinking such sarcastic thoughts, then you'd understand what I was saying. And as far a me having credibility; I don't care if you think I do or not, considering the origin of the commnet.;)
 
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Mightymoo

Well-Known Member
#12
It mostly comes down to the driver. In our segment there is not much difference in real life.

I was lucky and raced a Toyota Yaris GRMN on my last track day. That has 212 hp. Awesome car by the way. I managed to drive with identical laptimes, but suspect if we traded cars the Hyundai would win. He was a better and more efficient driver.



I also talked with a Ford Focus ST owner with 430HP. The car was rebuilt with totaly new engine and upgrades for over 25k Euro. He did the laptime in 1:48. My time was 1:53 with the i30N...
 
#13
Saw the video pop up as suggested on Youtube today so I bit. Unfortunately I don't think that video proves anything about Type R vs JSN performance.

Even before considering driver capabilities, heat cycled out slick take-offs being run at an HPDE on a street prepped car that does not appear to be driven at 9-10/10ths, are not going to reach optimal temps anyway.

And probably the biggest point, see the comment pinned by the channel guy to the top stating that the JSN is on TW200 Yokohama A052, which according to skidpad and autocross tests by Grassroots Motorsports magazine are on par with if not slightly faster than Bridgestone RE-71Rs and BFGoodrich Rival S 1.5s (which have been the fastest TW200 tires available for a couple seasons now).

Video on A052.PNG
 
#15
Truly no offense man but you need to chill and let it go, seriously. You're arbitrary comments aren't going to change anything.

The video showed the CTR getting smoked plain and simple. It doesn't matter if the driver couldn't drive, they were on worn slicks, the sun didn't shine or they had to go the bathroom etc.. ;) The CTR got trashed on this day. These are the realistic facts.

The facts bears out; the VN had only Advan A052 tires, no tune or other modifications. And, the CTR got smoked but by a far lesser horsepower VN. You're making as many excuses as they did and still watched the VN pull away not once, twice but more than three times.

You, can makeup all the; if's, should'ves, could'ves, or would'ves you want. It's not going to change the what happened. The VN sorely trounced the CTR in this video. The video is there for posterity and all to see.

The two who made the video, decided to make a point of announcing the comparison between the two and in the process got trounced. You're actually offended by the prospect also. LMAO:p Maybe, it was best the driver of the CTR and it's owner, kept their mouth closed and just continued to make excuses....................;) Stupid people, say stupid things.

On another day, with different conditions, different driver, it may bear out differently. However, on this day, it happened just the way it was videoed. If you admire the CTR so much, go buy one and try it yourself. Until then, it's just your own pipe dream.

Right now, by your thoughts and comments, you are living a lie thru your own imagination. Let it go!

This^is reality, no matter how you wish to perceive it! :)
 
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#16
I made a general statement but since the shoe fit wear it. It's obvious what's going on in this video to anyone who has a brain . I don't need to write a long post trying to convince you otherwise. You live in your reality and I'll live in mine.

If it makes you sleep at night yes the N "outperformed" the CTR in THIS video. There ya happy? Haha

Your that guy that talks a whole lot, sounds like they know what they are talking about but nothing actually meaningful to say. I'm the guy that sits back, don't talk much and observes. I take notes as to who actually knows what they are talking about and who is realistic. You are neither. You just talk and Believe your non sense. I've gotten messages already of how much your a tool on this thread lol but I won't put their names out there. Continue to write your many paragraphs trying to prove your point when it's all ignorance. You ain't fooling everyone.

I'm done being a fool coming down to a fool's level. You and I have nothing to talk about nor do I care to "introduce" my self to an online forum. I'll contribute when I can and ask when I need to. Simple. You like the spotlight and being very "engaging" on the forum even if some of it is nonsense. But that's you not me so enjoy coming across as a "well- known member"

Feel free to try to get your point across with another lonnnnnnng post again. What's understood doesn't need to be said and I have nothing more to say to you in regards to the CTR vs N. Maybe I'll see you on another threading saying unrealistic stuff again but I hope not... ✌️ Until next time..
 
#17
That the CTR did not pass the JSN in the video is about the only confident conclusion we can draw from this video. Not sure I'd say trounced or smoked but that is subjective.

My point with my statements above is that we cannot generalize further than that and claim, based on the video, that the JSN is a faster or better performing car on track than the CTR. There is a wide variety of reasons that cause us to not be able to make that further conclusion. Those reasons include driver ability, tires, and all kinds of other things we haven't discussed yet and will not likely get to know about the specific circumstances of the video.

I'm not saying anyone specifically claimed that generalization, but before I posted, this thread did give me that impression.

Anyway, I'm very happy with my JSN. I went in expecting performance below STi/CTR level but above GTi level at a good price and with a half decent back seat and back door (last car was an FR-S), and I got what I expected.
 
#18
That the CTR did not pass the JSN in the video is about the only confident conclusion we can draw from this video. Not sure I'd say trounced or smoked but that is subjective.

My point with my statements above is that we cannot generalize further than that and claim, based on the video, that the JSN is a faster or better performing car on track than the CTR. There is a wide variety of reasons that cause us to not be able to make that further conclusion. Those reasons include driver ability, tires, and all kinds of other things we haven't discussed yet and will not likely get to know about the specific circumstances of the video.

I'm not saying anyone specifically claimed that generalization, but before I posted, this thread did give me that impression.

Anyway, I'm very happy with my JSN. I went in expecting performance below STi/CTR level but above GTi level at a good price and with a half decent back seat and back door (last car was an FR-S), and I got what I expected.
Nicely said, I love my JSN and got exactly what I expected. I'd also like to point out I gave examples you can see on YouTube of the N actually out performing the N on the same track with pro driversso I encourage everyone to check that out.
 

MrDeeJay

Well-Known Member
#19
I've driven both on track, coached by a 3 time Touring Car champion.

I LOVE my N, but the Civic was quicker round the track, not by much, but it was quicker, and cornered flat as a pancake. VERY impressive track car.

In my opinion they are both great track day cars and I love my N as a daily drive. I can't comment on the Civic for everyday use as I haven't had one but I CAN SAY I was so impressed with the Civic on track, I bought an N o_O

Forgot to add a crucial point. Both cars were driven as you would from the dealer, absolutely NO mods.
 
#20
I made a general statement but since the shoe fit wear it. (sure you did :rolleyes:) . It's obvious what's going on in this video to anyone who has a brain. (I guess this excludes you) I don't need to write a long post trying to convince you otherwise. (You just did, :p) You live in your reality and I'll live in mine. (I'm totally thankful for this, your's is not reality.)

If it makes you sleep at night yes the N "outperformed" the CTR in THIS video. There ya happy? Haha (great you finally took a look at reality, it's a start:rolleyes:), (thanks appreciate your caring, I sleep fine;))

Your that guy that talks a whole lot, sounds like they know what they are talking about but nothing actually meaningful to say. I'm the guy that sits back, don't talk much and observes. I take notes as to who actually knows what they are talking about and who is realistic. You are neither. You just talk and Believe your non sense. I've gotten messages already of how much your a tool on this thread lol but I won't put their names out there. Continue to write your many paragraphs trying to prove your point when it's all ignorance. You ain't fooling everyone. (Actually, I'm very tolerant of persons like yourself.;))

I'm done being a fool (so you say, some actual reality and I hope so:p) coming down to a fool's level. (which is where you took it) You and I have nothing to talk about (this is truth and good;)) nor do I care to "introduce" my self to an online forum. (such hostility) I'll contribute when I can and ask when I need to. (by the look of it, that will be awhile:rolleyes:) Simple. You like the spotlight and being very "engaging" on the forum even if some of it is nonsense. But that's you not me so enjoy coming across as a "well- known member"(thanks, for your personal permission:rolleyes:), ( don't care one way or the other actually, I contribute realistically;))

Feel free to try to get your point across with another lonnnnnnng post again. (no, this is good enough;)) What's understood doesn't need to be said (some don't, like yourself, so it needs to be in writing sometimes:)) and I have nothing more to say to you in regards to the CTR vs N. (good then you'll honestly stop disrupting the thread:cool:) Maybe I'll see you on another threading saying unrealistic stuff again but I hope not... ✌️ Until next time..(please, use the ignore button it easier:rolleyes:)
On second thought; Your personal divisiveness and drivel needs to stop cluttering up a perfectly good thread.
I'm a noob, (so you say and so you areo_O) what is sensor hijacking and what's the difference between those 2 chips?
https://n-cars.net/forums/threads/dyno-posts.2833/#post-45641

They aren't chips. Chips are good UK food group!:p Please don't defile the Chips!!

Nuff Said!! LMAO!!:p You can read the rest in a PM, where it belongs. I know you'll read it, as your the type.
 
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