Intermittent hard starting

[ultraviolet]

Getting back to the original topic - I've had the same issue on and off since I bought her new in January. Seemingly random hard starts where the car takes a few cranks to start up, mostly happens when the engine is cold. It seems like it's beginning to be more frequent, like once a week or something. 6K miles, bone stock, always run Shell 91. I had the dealer take a look but of course they couldn't find anything. No codes present either. I'm also feeling slight misfire-y jitters when idling and haven't been paying attention if it happens in certain driving modes. This comes and goes and it doesn't seem to matter if the engine is warming up or already at temp. It also at times feels like the car is a little low on power but I can't really be sure...but it sure seems like these issues are likely all related.

I've tried doing some online searching and found a couple of guys randomly mentioning something about leaking injectors being a known issue - haven't read this on any of the VN forums so I wasn't sure if this had merit or not. Has anyone else heard about this issue specific to 2nd gen Velosters or VNs?

https://www.reddit.com/r/veloster/comments/cmr0xe

 

[R Veloster N]

No offense intended whatsoever, just straight forward thoughts;

You won't find any base or turbo model owners on this particular forum, so this part of the question is moot. Hearing about it and actually having a detectable issues, are another story altogether.

Honestly with the VN, I believe these issues are more owner induced, than the actual VN. I've not experienced any problems starting or with misfires and it's certainly not a common issue. Issues of actual misfires, will be detectable in the ECU by thrown codes.

If driving in the N-Mode while warming up, an unaware owner is going to experience some jerking from how the throttle is applied. Hitting bumps and road irregularities causes the inadvertent foot movements, in or out on the throttle. It's going to make the car jerk in lower gears and unless the driver adopts a more linear throttle application, it's going to continue. Driving in the N-Mode, takes some driver adaptation. It's harsh on the street and mostly unforgiving.

Leaking injectors, not likely and would show up as a error code in the ECU. Perceived power loss is due more to, ambient heat and heat soak. What is felt in the seat of the pants or perceived, is not detectable, nor is able to be diagnosed as an issue.

Harder starting in cold weather is normal and not unusual for any car.

Posing the same questions/issues again and again without a thorough diagnosis, is fruitless without attempting to take steps to find them. Other than taking it to the dealer, what else have you done personally to, diagnosis these particular issues on your own?

As I see it at this time, most of this issues which are being discussed come down to perceived events and guessing, with very little owner diagnosis or solid information.

 

[Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS]

In regards to the hard starting I have experienced this since the first month of owning the vehicle. There are some times regardless of weather, temperature and drive time the car will struggle to start the first time the button is pressed. Sometimes I’ve even had to press the start button twice do to the engine not starting through the first set of revolutions. And then when it does turn over it does so with a lot of hesitation. It’ll fire hang real low in the RPMs then kick up to “normal” idle RPMs. The other day one of the corporate engineers was here checking into another customers issues and I ran this by him just to see if it’s been documented. And he said they’re seeing issues with leaky injectors and told my service manager to test my car for them and report back. I refused to have this done as well as my service manager because I don’t believe this is the cause of the issue. But at this time it’s not able to be replicated habitually and I don’t want them to start tearing into my car and just throwing parts at it and possibly causing more issues in the process. My service manager is shrugging it off as vapor lock but I am reluctant to accept this as the answer. And as mentioned before the 2020 VN PP we have in stock has experienced the same thing with several of my coworkers near by and even they were questioning what was going on. But in regards to the bucking and hesitation as said above it could be user error. All turbo Hyundai models have this bucking when cold/warming up. It is 110% normal as well as the “misfires” you’re feeling at idle. Mine does it, the N for sale does it, the Santa Fe’s, Sonata’s and Elantra’s sports all have it. It’s no misfiring enough to throw a code but just enough for you to feel. Don’t sweat the small stuff it’s a performance built car in its first run there’s always going to be quirks and bugs that’ll get ironed out as time goes on. I’ve learned to just deal with it and not sweat it till it actually becomes an issue where the car won’t start or actually starts to effect the driving dynamics. I’m looking at this as more of a quirk to a already quirky car lol

 

[Cygnus X-1]

If those experiencing this issue don’t capture explicit evidence and pummel Hyundai over the head with it on multiple fronts, it will never be resolved.

 

[ultraviolet]

No offense intended whatsoever, just straight forward thoughts

None taken - I'm fully aware that sport/N mode increase pedal sensitivity so I'm not complaining about the bucking/"surging" others were mentioning; I know that's normal and requires finessing the pedal for smoother accel/decel. Hard starting, unless there's some quirk specific to Hyundais, is not something I've ever experienced in Southern California in the 15 years I've driven. The "cold weather" here is 60F in the morning during summer and I've never had this problem with Toyotas, Mercedes, Scions, FIATs, or Mazdas. I didn't try to self-diagnose in case someone else already had a lead...that's one of the benefits of online forums - to crowdsource info.

And he said they’re seeing issues with leaky injectors and told my service manager to test my car for them and report back.

Well, we'll see if Hyundai does end up issuing a TSB on the injectors - my symptoms certainly feels like a spark or fuel issue, but I'm in no rush to start pulling parts and testing them out on a relatively new car so I'm fine waiting until either my symptoms worsen or Hyundai takes some sort of action. Until then, I'll keep monitoring if any codes pop-up with my OBDII reader...

 

[Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS]

Well boys to keep y’all updated on this topic about two weeks ago the shop finally got around to installing my new injectors. And so far I have not had a single hard start ! I’m going to keep my eye on it over the next few weeks just to be sure. But so far the results are promising ! On a side note the vehicle overall seems to be running smoother and idling better than ever. This may be a placebo effect or the fact that my injectors were already covered in carbon. But I'm happy with the results so far !

 

[R Veloster N]

Chris, utilize some Techron @ about 1200 mile intervals, to keep the carbon deposits down. It does work and keeps the FI's clean and spraying like they were new.

You can adjust the frequency up or down as necessary. I've been utilizing Chevron Techron since the onset, no problems. I'll switch over to the Cerma Fuel Treatment fairly soon. I've already done the oil treatment and turbo.

I hope this solves the issue for you.

 

[Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS]

Chris, utilize some Techron @ about 1200 mile intervals, to keep the carbon deposits down. It does work and keeps the FI's clean and spraying like they were new.

You can adjust the frequency up or down as necessary. I've been utilizing Chevron Techron since the onset, no problems. I'll switch over to the Cerma Fuel Treatment fairly soon. I've already done the oil treatment and turbo.

I hope this solves the issue for you.

This is next on my list on top of catch cans. I’m also going to start running some Lucas through the old girl on a more religious schedule than before. Because not only were my injectors caked but also my valves. And I’m less than 10k miles and only run Sunoco 93.

 

[ultraviolet]

Well boys to keep y’all updated on this topic about two weeks ago the shop finally got around to installing my new injectors. And so far I have not had a single hard start ! I’m going to keep my eye on it over the next few weeks just to be sure. But so far the results are promising ! On a side note the vehicle overall seems to be running smoother and idling better than ever. This may be a placebo effect or the fact that my injectors were already covered in carbon. But I'm happy with the results so far !

Great news! Does shop = dealership? Covered under warranty? Did they find any fuel leaks?

 

[Davo01]

This is next on my list on top of catch cans. I’m also going to start running some Lucas through the old girl on a more religious schedule than before. Because not only were my injectors caked but also my valves. And I’m less than 10k miles and only run Sunoco 93.

Your intake valve were “caked” at 10k mikes?

What’s Lucas?

 

[Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS]

Great news! Does shop = dealership? Covered under warranty? Did they find any fuel leaks?

Yes covered 100% and no external leaks. The field engineer said the injectors were bleeding/leaking down. So I’m not sure if he meant they were leaking into the cylinders while the car sat. Or if they weren’t holding pressure and the fuel would bleed back into the fuel system. Either way we’re going o almost a month now and I’ve yet to have a hard start.

 

[Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS]

Your intake valve were “caked” at 10k mikes?

What’s Lucas?

This——> https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-10020-Fuel-Treatment-5-25-x/dp/B0006305RY

And yes there was quite a bit of carbon built up around the valve stems and on the injectors. I tried to take a pic of the valve stems but couldn’t get my camera to focus well enough.

 

[ultraviolet]

Yes covered 100% and no external leaks. The field engineer said the injectors were bleeding/leaking down. So I’m not sure if he meant they were leaking into the cylinders while the car sat. Or if they weren’t holding pressure and the fuel would bleed back into the fuel system. Either way we’re going o almost a month now and I’ve yet to have a hard start.

Thanks for the info! How'd you get a field engineer out there instead of a normal tech to look at it?

 

[Y0UKN0WITSCHRIS]

Thanks for the info! How'd you get a field engineer out there instead of a normal tech to look at it?

Work for a dealership lol. But also normal techs are nothing more than parts changers nowadays. And if something’s not obviously broken or there’s no code on the GDS then they have no idea how to fix anything. So in turn comes the engineers