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Engine Catch can

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avayswavay said:
It's good to question everything. I'm not totally sure how this is possible either, hence why I was always under the impression the pcv valve was forced closed under boost (to avoid pressuring the valve cover). This is the service manual for the 2.0 T-GDI Theta II and the pages before/after the ones I previously provided show CAD of our engine bay/components including the turbo. Maybe Hyundai dropped the ball with the pcv diagram for this platform (which would be unfortunate). I am not 100% sure here, but it is the information provided by them for our engines. I see the pcv schematic table has a column for high load/acceleration but doesn't mention boost at all. As far as the vapors going through the breather tube , this scenario should happen when there is a high volume of blow-by (high load/acceleration). The built up blow-by should vent under its own pressure and with the help of a vacuum from the turbo (airbox/filter creates restriction leading to vacuum between airbox and turbo). So in this case the crankase would be venting ("breathing") all that excess blow-by coming from the cylinders. Under normal load/acceleration the fresh air coming from the breather is used to sweep the blow-by out of the system. Attached are the pages surrounding the pcv section showing CAD that matches our VN's
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I have seen a few places in the service manuals where non-N vehicles are shown. Certainly I can see vacuum at the point where the breather attaches to the intake, but the blow by flow into the case permitting flow back up the breather completes the picture. Looking back it should have been pretty obvious...

Keep us posted on your catch can contents:)
 
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RameusJH said:
I have seen a few places in the service manuals where non-N vehicles are shown. Certainly I can see vacuum at the point where the breather attaches to the intake, but the blow by flow into the case permitting flow back up the breather completes the picture. Looking back it should have been pretty obvious...

Keep us posted on your catch can contents:)
Click to expand...

This is unfortunate . I will have to take the service manual with a grain of salt moving forward. & Most definately. Another measurement coming in 300 miles, oil lab results back next week , and most likely a baffled vent oil cap with a check ball coming.
 
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avayswavay said:
That is correct. A gentleman on the other forum already has this setup installed. He suggests getting an O-ring to properly seal it up:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-10-1-1-2-O-D-3-16-C-S-70-Durometer-Nitrile-O-Ring-H-320/190548651350?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

You can find his install here:

https://www.velostern.com/forum/#/topics/745
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UPDATE: The gentleman in the other forum has begun to experience problems with his breather application. The car is cutting power and creating flat spots with acceleration. Looks like the mod didn't work out:

https://www.velostern.com/forum/10-.../745-cfm-breather-w-checkball-2.html#post7259
 
avayswavay said:
Finished my 1st oil change last night. My God they were not lying when they said the drain plug is on there tight. My break-in oil also looked terrible and smelled terrible lmao. Make a long story short can collected 1 TBSP of pure oil. I could not visibly see any vapor at all that the Mishimoto can caught. This might change in the winter but I'm hoping the location of the can keeps it warm enough where not ALL vapor will condense in can. 1 TBSP of oil is roughly 15 ml. Oil was collected over the span of 1K miles. Mishimoto filter still looked good and clean so I did not service. Can still visibly had oil coated on all sides of walls. Mishimoto caught 20ml of crud in their can when running on the 1.6L Turbo Gamma Engine fitted to the 2019 Veloster Turbo. The article was posted in May but I do not know if that is when the test results were taken. Attached you will see pics of my collection and Mishimotos collection. Also attached you will see pics of can filter, empty can, break-in oil, and fresh Amsoil. 15ml that I caught is pretty close to the 20ml that Mishimoto caught. Our engines are "supposed" to be better in terms of blow-by I guess? Mishimoto can seems to be working as advertised. Money well spent. I do stop and go driving around town on the weekday but most of my commute is highway. On the weekend I also do stop and go driving in town but do travel from town to town usually every other week at a spirited speed :) Glad I finally got some data on this cans oil collection. It is a relatively a good can for the price with the micron filter.View attachment 8954View attachment 8955View attachment 8956View attachment 8957View attachment 8958View attachment 8959View attachment 8960
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Finally got my oil analysis results back from Blackstone Labs and what do you know? Fuel dilution was <0.5%. So this means that with extremely minimal blow-by I was still able to capture a significant amount of oil (15ml) that is being vacuumed out of the valve cover. Next up is a 1000 mile catch can check after running Amsoil 0w-30 and possibly using a boroscope to peak at the turbo/valves etc. The first catch can results were with break-in oil so it will be interesting to see if the results change with a top of the line oil. Finally, the viscosity of the break-in oil was a tad thin for 0w-30. Makes me wonder what oil they actually put in the engine from factory.baby blue vn.JPG
 
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It's 0W30, synthetic blend, Idemitsu Motor Oil from the factory. 0.5% is considered less than a trace. What you're catching in the can is; fuel vapor and moisture mixed, with very little oil vapor from the crankcase.
I ran Gumout at 1500 miles and 3000 miles before changing out the break-in oil for Amsoil 0w-30.
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This is why it seemed a bit thinner to you. Be careful how often you utilize Gumout fuel cleaner, in a new motor. Combined with fuel it will have a thinning effect in oil. It's designed to be used every 3K miles.

(Chemical Makeup of Fuel Additive)

Gumout Fuel Treatment:

Chemical Name CAS No Weight T/S

DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED LIGHT 64742-47-8 60 - 100 *
DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED MIDDLE 64742-46-7 0.1 - 1 *
POLYETHER AMINE MIXTURE 0.1 - 1 * 1,2,
4-TRIMETHYLBENZENE 95-63-6 0.1 - 1 *
NAPHTHALENE 91-20-3 <0.1
 
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Fuel additive can affect the oil results but I used none and ended up even thinner in less miles. Could be a result of the extremely high amount of viscosity improvers this oil uses and their tendency to shear.
 
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I was going to run royal pure intake cleaner. But after inspecting the crankcase vent system and associated components (very clean) I will wait and will borescope again at 8k miles
 
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Nomad17 said:
Fuel additive can affect the oil results but I used none and ended up even thinner in less miles. Could be a result of the extremely high amount of viscosity improvers this oil uses and their tendency to shear.
Click to expand...

You beat me to the punch , I was going to mention your oil analysis.
R Veloster N said:
It's 0W30, synthetic blend, Idemitsu Motor Oil from the factory. 0.5% is considered less than a trace. What you're catching in the can is; fuel vapor and moisture mixed, with very little oil vapor from the crankcase.
This is why it seemed a bit thinner to you. Be careful how often you utilize Gumout fuel cleaner, in a new motor. Combined with fuel it will have a thinning effect in oil. It's designed to be used every 3K miles.

(Chemical Makeup of Fuel Additive)

Gumout Fuel Treatment:

Chemical Name CAS No Weight T/S

DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED LIGHT 64742-47-8 60 - 100 *
DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED MIDDLE 64742-46-7 0.1 - 1 *
POLYETHER AMINE MIXTURE 0.1 - 1 * 1,2,
4-TRIMETHYLBENZENE 95-63-6 0.1 - 1 *
NAPHTHALENE 91-20-3 <0.1
Click to expand...

I'm going to push back on this. Please see @Nomad17 oil results that I have attached . He has similar results to mine with even thinner oil at less miles so the fuel additives are not a factor here. Furthermore I've seen people run fuel additives with much higher frequency with no ill results. Now with me being more on the cautious side I only choose to run it twice per oil change. Techron fuel additives state to not use more than twice per oil change max, so I thought that was a good benchmark. They also recommend using every 3k miles I have also attached their instructions. I know it's not the same product but more or less these fuel additives are roughly the same stuff so I'm not to worried about harming the engine. While I do agree that there is fuel vapor and moisture captured in my can idk if there is only trace amounts of oil. If you look at the walls of my can which I have attached as well, that does not look like water or fuel vapor at all to me. It is coated in oil. I know for a fact that these valves will develop carbon eventually so the carbon buildup has to come from somewhere. The only logical solution is either the breather or pcv system. Hopefully I can do a crude viscocity test on the contents of the can and compare it to my used oil. If I can collect enough of the catch can content I can also get that sent out to Blackstone for analysis.003ED3B4-9797-4EED-BFAC-10CAD829152C.pngBA7BEB5A-DAF0-4F81-80CC-F37F0A4494F0.pngCE98D14E-863F-42E2-B09F-792A80EE412E.jpegD06585E9-5462-4414-A9BD-096EA21313AE.jpegAB7250EC-53DE-4CA6-8AD1-CB6EC0A7173F.jpeg
 
Some interesting results after running my can for another 1K miles. I have now had my VN for 4K miles and the can has been run for 2k miles. During this 1000 mile interval I went on a road trip down to VA where I did 214 miles of highway driving. That is 21.4% more highway driving than my normal daily driving routine and different from how the car was driven from 2K miles to 3K miles when I emptied my first can. Also, I am now running Amsoil 0w-30 and not the break-in oil. I captured roughly 10ml of oil this go around so that’s 33% less oil than the last 1000 mile interval. Also, I poured some tap water into the container where I captured the oil to see if there was a significant amount of gas vapor and moisture captured. To my surprise, it was mostly oil that was captured (good job Mishimoto). To me, it looks like most of the 10ml sample was all pure oil. In the attachment, you can see the layer of oil sitting on top of the water. There also appears to be a middle layer, probably of oil mixed with combustion gases (I let the mixture sit overnight for proper separation). If there was a significant amount of gas vapor it should sit on top of the oil as the density of motor oil and water is both higher than gasoline. Placement of the can appears to also have helped tremendously. The can is located near the coolant bottle which should be roughly 200 degrees or a bit higher. We have already determined that the can gets flesh scorching hot. The boiling point of water is 212 degrees and gasoline boils anywhere between 100-400 degrees. So it is relatively safe to assume that both these elements remained in vapor state while being filtered by the can. On the other hand, synthetic motor oil has a boiling point of more than 500 degrees (piston rings can get this hot). Even though the flashpoint if Amsoil 0w-30 is 428 degrees it appears that it has been able to cool and condensed to a sufficient degree to be captured. Looking forward to running the can another 1000 miles with my regular driving routine to see the results (the Amsoil could be a big factor here vs the break-in oil). After I will lengthen the intervals between measurements. And hopefully, sometime soon I can peak at the valves and turbo.
44A2C95D-C93C-4B81-8BCA-EF69C781A906_1569000890668.jpg5A77CB1B-B656-4745-9478-AABC888D2C6D_1569000922342.jpgIMG_8159.jpgIMG_8155.jpg
 
Yes, you never know where they end up in full production and I don't care to speculate either.:). I'd hope they didn't outsource, except to a US production company. Looking at their facility, they have the room but I don't see the production equipment.

Mishimoto don't say in their bio either. So your guess is good as mine.;)
 
but It doesn't really matter where its made. There is a lot of crap that comes from china and there is also a lot of quality manufacturing there as well.

In fact, you can buy the exact replica of the mishimoto can on ebay for less than half the price.
Probably the same outfit that makes the mishi can.

The cost of doing business in China, copyright infringement



R Veloster N said:
Yes, you never know where they end up in full production and I don't care to speculate either.:). I'd hope they didn't outsource, except to a US production company. Looking at their facility, they have the room but I don't see the production equipment.

Mishimoto don't say in their bio either. So your guess is good as mine.;)
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